Debate : 27515


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Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Bruce Hietbrink

Hey all, Have you guys seen (URL) this story>? A Danish newspaper printed several cartoons of Mohammed last September and this has led to complaints to the UN, death threats, and boycotts of Danish goods in some Arab nations (which is how I first (...) (19 years ago, 2-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Bruce Hietbrink

Wow, what the heck was up with my spelling? In my defense, I've just been surfing around the blogosphere looking for articles on this and maybe I saw this variant spelling and it stuck in my head. According to wikipedia, the spelling "moslem" fell (...) (19 years ago, 2-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) It is a great example of the differences between freedom and totalitarianism; of tolerance and intolerance. Unless the world of Islam can learn to "live and let live", there is going to be a very large and violent cultural war in the future; I (...) (19 years ago, 2-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Allister McLaren

(...) THE COMING OF THE LORD IS AT HAND!! (19 years ago, 2-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Timothy Gould

(...) (URL) (19 years ago, 2-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Ross Crawford

(...) Nice render Tim, but the reflection on the silver armour makes him look transparent. I don't think it'll win any contests. ROSCO (19 years ago, 2-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Leonard Hoffman

(...) Foolish Ross, that very picture has already won two different contests - Mr.Gould is just too modest to announce it to everyone here. (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Timothy Gould

(...) What were they and what did I win???...??? Tim (who likes winning unknown contests) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Ross Crawford

(...) It was just a turn of phrase. ROSCO (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) What's with all of the button pushing? JOHN (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) I remain unmoved to cut off your head. JOHN (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Timothy Gould

(...) Had I run that in a newspaper would you remain unmoved to boycott that newspaper? You may, but given the past behaviour of many of your Conservative American countrymen and women I doubt they would. There is, fortunately, one major difference (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) I also believe secular democracies are best. Democracies come in second. Now, I've never supported religion-based laws per se-- I've supported laws that are based on religious values. I think that there is an important distinction there. I (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Timothy Gould

I will consider your removal of and lack of counterargument to the prior text to be agreement. I'm glad I could be so convincing. ;) (...) I don't really see much difference here but it is a matter of semantics and thus purely opinion based. (...) (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) You were just asserting that the US was a secular demo, no? We are. But most of our FF were men of faith and our very existence was due to those who were looking to practice their religion freely, so we have an integral, religious history. (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Timothy Gould

(...) Which is all fine up until the point where the separation of church and state begins to be eroded. That point has almost been reached, and, with President Bush's new Court nominations is in danger of being reached. Mainly however, I was just (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) You are repeating simply the sour grapes of one group who isn't currently in power. Boo-hoo. Bush's nominations are eminently qualified to hold their positions. Even if Roe v. Wade were to be repelled, that still means nothing. Why is it that (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Timothy Gould

(...) No John. I'm not repeating (nor speaking of) sour grapes. I have nothing against the conservatism of the appointees, I have something against the religious fundamentalism of them. You know, the same thing you don't like in Muslims. As it is, I (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) I frankly don't care what they believe; it's what they do that can concern me... (...) Harriet Miers was a terrible choice-- unqualified, and a crony. The Dems should be thankful that they were spared the job of excoriating a woman nominee (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Timothy Gould

--SNIP-- (...) I agree completely, but we'll have to wait and see what happens before deciding on this. (...) Wasn't me who confused the two. It was you. Thus my statement above regarding conservatism and fundamentalism. (...) I've seen no proof (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Tim David

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Timothy Gould wrote: --BIG--SNIP-- (...) But the flaw in that is that you don't have to be cohabiting to be married Another Tim (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Well, see, this is part of the problem. If we wait, for instance, until Iran gets nukes and uses them, then it is a bit late, don't you agree? This is the reason for pre-emptive strikes. A stitch in time and all of that. (...) I guess I was (...) (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Ross Crawford

(...) So you *do* care what gays believe? ROSCO (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Regarding what? (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Ross Crawford

(...) I'm just trying to establish whether the statement you made about Iranians above also applies to gays. Does it? ROSCO (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) I was speaking in the context of Sharia. I don't care if Iranians believe in Sharia or any other system of law and order. What I do care about is how those beliefs affect their policies towards the outside world. So I don't think that your (...) (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Ross Crawford

(...) That's what I was asking, thank you for clarifying. ROSCO (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Allister McLaren

(...) So it's less about what they actually do than it is about what you believe they might do? a (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Not "less". What they are actually doing now is making serious threats and engaging in deliberately provocative behavior. So the question becomes, do we take them at their word, or do we take the chance that they are full of BS? We are being (...) (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Allister McLaren

(...) O take the threats and so-on seriously, but to go to war over them is ia bit over the top. As much as it may pain you to hear it, if you want to justify going to war, then wait until they do an act of war, not just threaten. Thwart plans, yes. (...) (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) Hmm... (URL) "We are most certainly *not* a secular nation."> (Readers perusing that old thread for the first time should be warned that it took place before my now-characteristic patience and politeness were cemented...) Dave! (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) lol Ah, using myself against myself, eh? Well, you've got a fool for a witness! Looks as though I was a bit contentious as well...:-o Okay, on to my apparent contradiction.... The United States of America is a secular democracy. Our very (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) (forgot to answer this) For me, life is too short to quibble about the small stuff. I'd fry bigger fish. JOHN (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) I don't tink the maor difference is that you're living in a Secular democracy. I think the difference is that you're living in a society that can voice their differences in a fashion that doesn't entail the need to lop the heads off people if (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) To be fair, this insane response has not been echoed by American Muslims. We must account for that as well.... (...) I wonder if that has something to do with not wanting their "image" caught on tape or photographed-- the whole making "graven (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) I want to clarify my response--the people that are 'taking this to the streets' with the flag burning and the gun shooting and the life threatening are the uncivilized people--not Muslims or people of middle eastern countries. (...) I was just (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Glad you clarified, because now I really have no idea what you're talking about! Who and where and what are these people about whom you speak? JOHN (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) I'm saying that the people that are on the streets with the threatening of life and the shooting of guns in the air and aprtaking in 'violent demostrations' are the uncivilized people--it doesn't matter if they're muslim. christian, agnostic, (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Ray Sanders

(...) Do you ever get the impression that the media is being manipulated... by both sides ? Ray (19 years ago, 4-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Tim David

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote: --SNIP-- (...) But surely thats how democracy works. If you had no control over who was in power then you could have a right to say that its nothing to do with you, but that isn't the case. (Don't get (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) I'm a little late in getting to this discussion, so perhaps this has been addressed already, but how is this threatened responsed fundamentally (no pun intended) different from acrimonious boycotts by US-based religious groups whenever an (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) What took you? :-) (...) The er, fundamental difference, is that one is peaceful and law-abiding, and the other isn't. You can call the responses from US-based religious groups to any given issue "acrimonious" if you want, but they are rarely (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) I'm not sure that that's correct. Paul Mirecki, of KSU, was attacked for speaking out against fundamentalist Christians and for (rightly) labeling Intelligent Design "Creationism." Abortion clinics have been bombed by people "doing the Lord's (...) (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Does it actually breed it? I don't believe one needs to be a fundamentalist to be intolerant. I have come across many intolerant liberals lately, though I doubt they'd ever admit it. I'm wondering: in order to be truly intolerant, does one (...) (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) Let's be clear, though; I'm not saying that only fundamentalism breeds intolerance, nor that all fundamentalists are intolerant. Perhaps a better word than "fundamentalist" in this context is "absolutist," meaning someone who claims to have (...) (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Alles klar, Herr Kommissar. (...) Exactly. But are fundamentalists more apt to resort to violence in promoting/defending their ideals? I'm thinking not, and so I suspect that the seeds of violent intolerance are sown elsewhere. I have a (...) (19 years ago, 7-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) (URL) are some additional thoughts along these lines, expressed at greater length than I was able to put together. Dave! (19 years ago, 8-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote: <snip> (...) (URL) Here's> more... ;) Dave K (19 years ago, 8-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Sparky! I'm in LOVE!!! :-) XXXOOO, JOHN (19 years ago, 8-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) Aww gee... (shuffles feet all embarassed like...) Dave K (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) I feel like we are auditioning for a scene in Brokeback Mountin! Suddenly afraid to use emoticons, JOHN (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) Not that there's anything wrong with that... Oh wait, that's Seinfeld... Dave K (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Not using emoticons? (...) NO EMOTICONS FOR YOU!!! JOHN PS No props por my malaprop? ;-) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) The temptation to equate intolerant Islam and the intolerant Christian Right is simply too great and self-servingly too delicious for the Left to resist. Don't fall into that blinkered, bigotted hole, Dave! I will grant to you that both sides (...) (19 years ago, 8-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) John, I simply can't accept that. (...) All evidence suggests that Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson and Eric Rudolph and all the rest would engage in murderous violence--and their followers would support them--if only they thought that they could (...) (19 years ago, 8-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) But this is not a trial in court. One is innocent until proven guilty in this country, and so you just can't convict somebody for state of mind or intent. Now, as for Fred Phelps and Eric Rudolph, they are clearly deranged and insane. So write (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) Sure Pat "I was for Ariel's stroke because he divided the Holy Land until I was against Ariel's stroke 'cause I couldn't have my Theme Park" Robertson has his followers, and has called for assassinations, and other such crap. However, his (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Did he actually call for the assassination? If he did, what's up with those no-good followers of his who aren't following orders? Talk is cheap. Protected, in fact. (...) AAhmen and Ahmen. Well spoken, Bruce! (...) If the tables were turned, (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) Well, let's see. If I go on-air to millions and declare that a certain US President should be assassinated, will Conservatives rally around me to protect my right to free speech? Of course, if I were a dessicated, talentless hack who called (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) There happens to be a law against that, and the Secret Service takes that stuff seriously. It's best not to get cute in that arena. But if you posted that and many other unpleasantries, say in a liberal NG, no one would care, because they'd (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) Though I hesitate to use the words "cute" and "Ann Coulter" in the same post, I simply don't see the distinction between her call for poisoning to be different from the hypothetical that I mentioned. Sure, she can claim that she's joking, but (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) And I agree with this assessment--calling for poisoning anyone is extremely bad taste--joking or no. (...) Oh that'd be the day... THere is a dichotomy between the 'Left' and the 'Right' with what they can get away with--the 'Right' could use (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) I don't remember the exact quotation, but let's be honest here. Scalia, to Coulter, is one of the "good guys". I'm sure that if she had to pick a Justice to poison, he wouldn't really be her first choice. (...) Slightly different because Maher (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) Actually, she talked about (URL) Justice John Paul Stevens>, who is far to the Left of Scalia and Coulter. (...) Care to rework that, since it was Stevens instead of Scalia? (...) Well, I'll give you that one. I don't think he's all that (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Right (see, I told you:-) I was trying to find the actual column in which she says this but it was too old for my cursory search (pun intended--ALWAYS!). But from your link, she flat-out states, "That's just a joke, for you in the media." You (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Leonard Hoffman

(...) (URL) Protests in London call for terrorist strikes against Europe, threaten those who insult Islam with execution, and generally reject liberal democracy. (URL) Danish Embassy in Lebanon and Syria are attacked by protestors and set on fire. (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Timothy Gould

--SNIP-- (...) --SNIP-- (...) Apart from on Bosnia, and Liberia and the other places where they have. Sure we don't have the pretty pictures of it but that's because, according to the Western media, those people don't count. And that's not to (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Leonard Hoffman

(...) I don't mean to suggest any society is free of extremists and crazies. Christianity has been responsible for some of the most horrendous acts in history - cruel, horrible actions that seem devoid of purpose or humanity. Nor am I trying to say (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Great example. This man cannot be more of a hypocrite, more full of excrement. The irony is literally painful. JOHN (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Ross Crawford

(...) I disagree with many of your views, but I don't say you're full of shit for expressing them. Do you know that person? How can you possibly say what their motivation is? ROSCO (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) I meant to imply that he was full of it for holding that view, not expressing it. And what if you did? That's your view, and you are entitled to it. So then we can debate it and argue the merits of each others points. How does one open a (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Timothy Gould

(...) The UK still produces a lot of good authors John. To accuse it of literary dying is a bit harsh. ;) Tim (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) lol For some reason, it comes out that way in type every time and I have to go back and correct. Musta missed that one:-/ Either that, or it's Canada's fault! JOHN (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Ross Crawford

(...) A good start would be to find out who it actually is. (...) And how many people do you know with faeces for brains to make such a comparison? (...) His? I see nothing gender specific about that pic. Maybe it's nothing to do with shame, but a (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Ross Crawford

(...) Like thousands rioting in LA because a court ruling didn't go the way they wanted? I seem to recall about 50 killed, was that justified? Mob rule can do some strange things to people. ROSCO (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Leonard Hoffman

(...) Fair enough - that was a pretty lame reason to riot. I remember my High School shutting off access to cable and radio when the verdict was read during the OJ Simpson trial in case there was problems. Pretty lame and unjustified if you ask me. (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Bruce Schlickbernd

(...) The trial of the officers who beat Rodney King (I have no idea why you are referencing the O.J. Simpson trial) was such a farce that feds brought them up on federal charges (and ran a competent trial) as fast as they could. The riot ensued (...) (19 years ago, 13-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Leonard Hoffman

(...) I mentioned the OJ Simpson trial because my school shut down access to radio, cable, TV when the verdict was read. Maybe the missing piece of info was that the school didn't know what the verdict was going to be - I think they were expecting a (...) (19 years ago, 13-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) This is SO obvious-- we are engaged in an violent struggle (ie war) with radical Wahabi muslims. If the rest of Islam doesn't not stand up against these extremists, they are allowing THEM to define themselves (the rest of Islam) and their (...) (19 years ago, 13-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Timothy Gould

(...) You probably did but that's not really your fault. There have been marches in the UK but, unsurprisingly their peaceful nature made them unnewsworthy. BTW. I just found this (URL) So it seems that the government and religious leaders of (...) (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Scott Arthur

Mr Tolerant, Just imagine the fuss in the west if the same paper had printed anti-jewish material... Scott A (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) Would ther have been a response if there were anti-jewish cartoons published? More than likely. And the response would have happened when the cartoons came out back in September, instead of sitting on it whilst shipping danish flags to the (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) I can feeel the loove! Quick, on to abortion:-) JOHN (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) I will never put a woman in a position where she'll have to wrestle with the decision to have an abortion. I believe the baby in the womb is a living entity--at what point doesn't really matter to the 'big conversation'--if I 'knock someone (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Well, it definitely affects the baby, and if that baby is considered a person, then the State has the obligation to protect the rights of that person. (...) Yes. Here are 2 extreme examples that I believe negate any position that is completely (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) The question becomes "why must the rights of the embryo or fetus supersede the rights of the woman?" I've never heard a compelling answer to that question. (...) It has been helpful for me, in discussions like this, to add the term "viable" to (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Population control -- was Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) See, I'm kinda with Dave! on this one--if it's a black and white issue--i.e. the second the sperm touches the egg it's LIFE! then there would be no issue. But people haven't been able to come to a consensus for, well, ever yet as to when life (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Population control -- was Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) No questions? Some have decided that (URL) post birth abortions> are fine. Again, I am not comfortable with someone deciding to abort a baby that is literally seconds from birth, much less X minutes after! It's almost beyond belief. So it (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Population control -- was Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

(...) It is almost beyond belief. But then, on the oppsite end, there's the 'morning after' pill that is causing a furor because the republicans want to make it a perscription drug (or have already done so--can't remember)--they're meddling in the (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Well, if you accept the premise that the baby in utero (thanks for the clarification above) is a person, then certainly the State has the obligation to protect that person's rights (namely, to live). So, by comparison, if a mother tires of her (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) And, naturally, that may be the hardest agreement to reach! (...) A fair question. If a fetus is removed from its mother at 20 weeks and spends another 20 weeks in an artificial uterus until birth, then that's just substituting one womb for (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Phew, I was getting the shakes in there! ;-) I'm wondering if it's as simple as simply stating, "life begins at heartbeat". Completely arbitrary, but not without a poignant touch, considering that the heart is a powerful symbol for humanity (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —David Koudys

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote: <snip> (...) So you're a James disiple--"faith without works" and all that? I'm pretty much there except I say "In the end, I believe that we'll be judged on what we did" and leave the beliefs out of it, (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Yup. Faith without works is like a day without a bicycle. Or is that a woman without a man is like a fish without sunshine.... Something like that:-) (...) That's fine and good, but there's one caveat, and Jesus addresses this issue DIRECTLY (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Dave Schuler

(...) I'm not sure about that. If you get your butt seriously kicked by the world-at-large (through a spectacular failure or an overwhelming loss or a debilitating disease or whatever), then I'd say that you can get a pretty good grasp of what it (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Good point, and it highlites an omission I made. What I meant to say is that accounting to God is our only hope of remaining humble throughout life. Yes, life can get us down, but we are usually able to rise up and forget all that those (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Ross Crawford

(...) I think most cultures respect life a lot. It's just those extremists you're talking about that seem to have less respect for it. And I don't just mean terrorists. And if more people were content to put up with the inconvenience of walking (...) (19 years ago, 10-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) And if so, so what? Isn't anyone's right to make "a fuss"? Unless of course by fuss you mean burn and murder.... The interesting question now is for countries who have freedom of speech (such as Germany), but yet have laws making it illegal to (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Scott Arthur

(...) Are you sure about the latter? ;) Scott A (...) (19 years ago, 9-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Erik Olson

(URL) Am Spartacus," by "Wretchard," Bellmont Club, February 1 "The first effective counterstroke in the cultural confrontation between the West and Radical Islam has been fired by Europe. The Guardian reports: 'Two leading German newspapers and one (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Well I'm not a "conservative American" but I've been doing my bit to buy Danish for years now, do I get retroactive credit? ++Lar (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Are you talking about LEGO, or pastries? <g,d & r> JOHN (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Both, obviously. And Carlsberg when I can get it. ++Lar (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —Fredrik Glöckner

(...) It's mostly a clash between the extremists. Here in Norway, a fundamental Christian newspaper, which nobody had heard about before this issue came up, reprinted the pictures. And this is taken up by similar guys on the Muslim side, who are (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Neal

(...) That is very interesting. Why do you suppose that attempts haven't been made to change your flag to remove that Christian element? Or have there been? I'm really curious as to whether or not this is or ever was an issue of debate in your (...) (19 years ago, 3-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Muslim groups and nations —Erik Olson

(...) Here is a bigger archive of Mohamed cartoons over the ages, up to the present. It shows the fairly humorous Danish ones ("Stop, stop, we ran out of virgins!") along with the 3 somewhat different in tone cartoons that are probably a big part of (...) (19 years ago, 5-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Muslim groups and nations —Bruce Hietbrink

(...) Hey, scroll down to the (URL) next to last image>. :) Bruce (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Muslim groups and nations —John Neal

(...) Perhaps it is I who is the (URL) ;-) JOHN (19 years ago, 6-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Danish cartoons outrage some Moslem groups and nations —John Barnes

(...) I don't normally check out off-topic. Glad I did. I have no interest or knowledge in the religious beliefs of other people and nor should I be required too. So if I see a news report that believers in some religion about which I know nothing (...) (19 years ago, 7-Feb-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)