Subject:
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Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 17 May 2002 14:11:22 GMT
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Viewed:
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823 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Petrucelli writes:
> [snip]
> > (Given that this thread-let was about Ms Charen's integrity, I’m bemused
> > that you are using her to justify your argument(!). Have we went full circle?)
>
> That is why I used an excerpt that contained its sorce reference.
> >
> > Even if true, I don't agree it does answer my argument. My questions to you
> > were:
> > 1. Who made them refugee's?
>
> Arab propaganda. Not all Arabs (Palestinians) fled Israel in 1948, because they
> did not belive the silly things that the dictators tell them. (like the
> Saudi-Arabia "Jewish Vampire" article.
If "not all", then how many? Israel was able to clear 80% of Palestinians
from the area (~700,000 individuals), I happen to think that had more to do
with their aggression than it does alleged reports of "Jewish Vampires".
However, I don’t see why the Palestinians should not be allowed to return
even if their fears were ill founded. Analogy: If I flee from my home in the
ill founded belief that is on fire, should I not be allowed to return?
If a family has lived on the same plot of land for generations, why should
they be removed without compensation to provide a home for an economic
migrant from the former USSR?
> (Now if you think that is being
> ridiculously paranoid consider this. Durring World War 2 when US troops were
> taking Islands with Japanesse civilians it was very common to see people
> jumping off cliffs to avoid "capture." Fortunatly most of the Japanesse did
> not belive their government's lies and discovered that the US soldiers had no
> ill will toward unarmed cilivians.)
>
> > 2. Why should the Arab states support them? Because they share a religion?
>
> The Arab states forcably exiled the Jews living in their countries. Israel did
> not force those people into refugee camps like the Arab countries did to the
> Palestinians, they accepted them as citizens.
Now Mike, I expect you know well that Israel was actually encouraging Jews
to move to the region, it is hardly surprising they did not put them in
refugee camps!
>
> > 3. Why should Israel be allowed to steal their land?
>
> They did not. The Palestinians (unlike the Jews) were not forced out of their
> homes they chose to leave.
I can't agree with that. The Israeli’s were destroying whole villages as
they moved through some areas.
>
> > 4. Would you let them steal yours?
>
> No but that is irrelevant they did not steal anyones land. The only land stolen
> was Jewish property in the Arab countries.
I can't agree with that. Was the land bought in a fair sale? I think not!
> >
> [snip]
> > > but at the same time why is no one critizising Palestinian actions?
> >
> > Now you are being paranoid! They do Mike. Check the Amnesty and HRW sites.
>
> The problem is most news agencies are making excuses for the Palestinians,
> saying they are acting out of desperation and such.
It's true. Take a look at how they live, and how their leaders have sold
them out time-after-time.
> >
> > <snip>
> > > > > > > I do support Israel's right to fight back
> > > > > > > though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do the Palestinians not have the “right to fight back”?
> > > > >
> > > > > From Israel offering peace?!
> > > >
> > > > No, fight back against Israeli agrression!
> > >
> > > So they start a fight and cry 'wolf' when they lose?
> >
> > I don't agree with that analogy. If we accept that the west bank and gaza
> > are occupied terrotories, the Palastinians have the right to fight back
> > against the forces of occupation (not civilians).
>
> If the above situation were true I would most certainly agree with it. Of
> coure 97 percent the West Bank and Gaza was NOT occupied since 1993.
Not quite true:
http://www.opendemocracy.net/forum/document_details.asp?CatID=127&DocID=1380
"The map shows how the built-up areas of the settlements constitute only
1.7% of the land in the West Bank, but their municipal boundaries and
regional councils now control a total of 41.9% of the land."
The map:
http://www.opendemocracy.net/document_store/Doc1380-5.pdf
> Barak
> offered to give the rest back in exchange for peace. Arafat did not accept.
> Only after the Palestinians spent 18 months suicide bombing civilians did
> Israel's army finally retaliate by invading. You would think that Arafat would
> have learned that lesson in 1967, but then again most of the world is now
> criticizing Israel and making excuses for Palestinians.
As I have said before, Barak could not even guarantee that offer as it would
have to be validated in a referendum. Even so, what stopped him from making a
second offer? Do you feel Arafat was obliged to accept the offer simply
because it was made to him?
> If the Palestinians
> ONLY wanted the West Bank and Gaza it had already been offered.
Not all of it - we both agree on that much. What about Jerusalem? Have they
no right to that?
> The current
> terror campaign is intended to bring about what Arafat wanted all along, the
> destruction of Israel.
That is the aim of some involved. Some in Israel want to do the same to the
Palestinians - do you accept that?
>
> [snip]
> > > > Where did the refugees come from?
> > > > What was Israel's role in Suez?
> >
> > No answer?
>
> The first question was answered above.
> This might be a major case of 'DUH' but I have no Idea what 'Suez' refers to.
The Suez War ('57?) which Israel started for France and the UK! France
rewarded them with arms and “nuclear technology”.
Scott A
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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| (...) circle?) (...) they (...) How about people that moved into an area 1-2 years before the the country was formed by the UN. The only reason they moved there was because the Arab countries were trying to discourage the UN from putting Israel (...) (22 years ago, 18-May-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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| [snip] (...) That is why I used an excerpt that contained its sorce reference. (...) Arab propaganda. Not all Arabs (Palestinians) fled Israel in 1948, because they did not belive the silly things that the dictators tell them. (like the Saudi-Arabia (...) (22 years ago, 17-May-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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