Subject:
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Re: Cease fire (was: Re: Peace in the Mid-East?)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:05:41 GMT
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Viewed:
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887 times
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John,
this is a rather unique record of the thread. For the record, I did not
simply say I was "sympathetic with the Palestinians". I, in fact, said:
"Although I do support the right of self defence, I am fundamentally a
pacifist in nature. I believe strongly that we should uphold human rights
and have respect for international law. These beliefs mean that I oppose the
actions of both 'PLO terrorists' and the Israeli state. My views on human
rights and international law, together with my understanding of recent
middle-east history, leads me to sympathize with the Palestinian people, not
with 'PLO terrorists'."
In the Guardian Yesterday, Desmond TuTu said something similar about Israeli
oppression[1]:
“On one of my visits to the Holy Land I drove to a church with the Anglican
bishop in Jerusalem. I could hear tears in his voice as he pointed to Jewish
settlements. I thought of the desire of Israelis for security. But what of
the Palestinians who have lost their land and homes?”
“Israel will never get true security and safety through oppressing another
people. A true peace can ultimately be built only on justice. We condemn the
violence of suicide bombers, and we condemn the corruption of young minds
taught hatred; but we also condemn the violence of military incursions in
the occupied lands, and the inhumanity that won't let ambulances reach the
injured. The military action of recent days, I predict with certainty, will
not provide the security and peace Israelis want; it will only intensify the
hatred.”
"I am not pro-this people or that. I am pro-justice, pro-freedom. I am anti-
injustice, anti-oppression."
So John, whilst you are free to spout you hatful pro-Israeli opinions here,
I’ll continue to look at this situation from a pro-justice & pro-freedom
perspective.
Scott A
[1] And, interestingly, he also said this:
"...somehow, the Israeli government is placed on a pedestal [in the US], and
to criticise it is to be immediately dubbed anti-Semitic, as if the
Palestinians were not Semitic.... People are scared in this country [the
US], to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful - very
powerful. Well, so what? For goodness sake, this is God's world! We live in
a moral universe. The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it
no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi
Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust."
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > > And if not that, maybe your
> > > last words as regards me could be a retraction of your false claim...?
> >
> > John,
> > After you have done that, perhaps you can reply to this:
> > http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=16245
> >
> > Scott A
>
> Time to wrap this up. This whole thing started because you took me to task when
> I equated the Palestinians with the PLO. I still say that if the Palestinians
> continue to support PLO terrorists, they are as culpable as terrorists
> themselves. If you want to debate that, fine.
>
> I asserted that terrorism is *never* justified. You then went off on various
> tangents about Israeli belligerence, terrorism, US terrorism, and other
> irrelevant topics about which I have not the time or inclination to debate, as
> if the fact that whether the Israelis or Americans are terrorists or not would
> be any justification for PLO terrorism (The topic is/was PLO terrorism).
>
> You stated that you were sympathetic with the Palestinians. As long as the
> Palestinians support and chose the PLO as their representative, then that puts
> you and anyone else who feels like you do in the seat of a sympathizer with
> terrorists, IMO.
>
> I apologize for calling you an "idiot"; I realize now why I did and will
> refrain from such characterizations in the future (if there is a future in this
> forum, in light of RM's vague threat)
>
> -John
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Cease fire (was: Re: Peace in the Mid-East?)
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| (...) (Sorry about the butchered pasting): You: mean that I oppose the actions of both "PLO terrorists" and the Israeli > state. My views on human rights and international law, together with my > understanding of recent middle-east history, leads me (...) (22 years ago, 30-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Cease fire (was: Re: Peace in the Mid-East?)
|
| (...) Time to wrap this up. This whole thing started because you took me to task when I equated the Palestinians with the PLO. I still say that if the Palestinians continue to support PLO terrorists, they are as culpable as terrorists themselves. If (...) (22 years ago, 29-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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