Subject:
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Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 11 May 2002 03:05:12 GMT
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Viewed:
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691 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > > > > Here is an Article by Mona Charen. I think anyone who cares about the • subject
> > > > > should read it.
> > > >
> > > > The link now refers to the April 26th article, the May 3rd is worth reading
> > > > too.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?next=2&ColumnsName=mch
> > >
> > >
> > > More objective reporting from Mona. Has she ever criticized Israel?
> >
> > Well I have been reading her articles for about 2 years now. She does not • side
> > with either conservatives or liberals all the time.
>
> That is *not* what I asked
The statement was a validation of Mona Charen not mindlessly accepting
Government Propaganda from either side of the issue.
>
> > Her opinions (and I do
> > understand it is an opinion) are formed with the facts at hand.
>
> Not "the facts", just the "facts at hand"? What are her information sources?
> AIPAC?
Primary source research, not the "News."
>
> > The simple
> > fact is that everyone who has heavily researched the facts first hand and not
> > the propaganda from both sides has come to the same conclusion. Certainly
> > Israelies are not the inocent victims they portray themselves to be. But • they
> > are much closer to that end rather than the evil oppressors Palestinians
> > portray them to be.
>
> They may not be the "evil oppressors Palestinians portray them to be", but
> they are still evil oppressors. Just take a look at the human rights reports
> from the occupied territories.
>
> “[There are] daily acts of discrimination, inequality, humiliation, and the
> powerlessness of occupation. This has been intensified by the conflict,
> intensified by the excessive use of force” - UN Human Rights Commissioner
> Mary Robinson
> from:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1043000/1043537.stm
>
> Is she lying?
18 months of suicide bombings will have that effect. I guess Israel never
should have withdrew in 1997.
> > >
> > > Even if every word were true, and the reality were worse, it does not
> > > justify what the Israeli’s are doing. As my granny used to say: two wrongs
> > > do not make a right.
> >
> > As Mona Charen stated;
> > "Why do those who accuse Israel of "excessive" force against the Palestinians
> > not consider that the easiest course for Israel, if she truly had no
> > compunctions about causing civilian casualties, would have been to attack • Jenin
> > and other terror nests from the skies (as we did in Afghanistan),
>
> Indeed, the Palestinians should be grateful they have not been "nuked".
Uh, NO.
>
> > instead of
> > going house-to-house, risking (and losing) the lives of her soldiers?"
>
> In Jenin, they forced Palestinians into the houses first... very brave of • them:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1937000/1937599.stm
>
> “Israeli soldiers have forced Palestinians at gunpoint to open suspicious
> packages, knock on suspects' doors and search the houses of Palestinians
> wanted by Israel”
Oh yes, PLO controled news reported by the BBC is completely trustworthy.
>
> > >
> > > I would have had a great deal more respect for Israeli human rights and
> > > openness if they had allowed the UN into Jenin. They did not. What is more,
> > > Sharon saw fit to thank the USA for helping him avoid exposure:
> > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4409055,00.html
> > >
> > > What does he have to hide?
>
> No answer? Has the cat got your tongue?
>
> Why does he get so much support from the US? Perhaps this is why:
> http://www.wrmea.com/html/aipac.htm
Oh wow, the US and Israel both have their hands dirty too. Gee there is a
shock. At least living in free societies we can both see that. Arabs
(including Palestinians) might change their tune if they knew their governments
were using them as pawns. (as any good Dictatorship would.)
> > >
> > > > (if only ignoring the problem would make it go away)
> > >
> > > The world has been ignoring the problem since '67... and before. The problem
> > > is Israel and its apologists. If they had chosen to abide by UN resolutions,
> > > this would largely be history. The Intifada is a result of
> > > desperation/oppression, not a unilateral act of war.
> >
> > I assume you did not read the May 3rd article.
> > http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?next=1&ColumnsName=mch
> >
> > The Arab countries and the PLO are the ones who have been keeping the
> > Palestinians in a state of desperation/oppression
>
> Even if that is true, and the reality were worse, Israel's actions force
> them into the hands of Arafat… and worse. Look at how Hamas has gained
> strength since Sharon came to power. Do you really think that is a
> coincidence?
Of course not. If all your information was based on State Controlled media you
unquestionably trusted, how would that affect your beliefs. They keep the
masses discontent and have a scapegoat to blame it on. That strengthens their
power base and gives them lots of mindless volunteers. Heck, if I was naive
enough to believe innocent women and children were evil and that by blowing
them up I would go to heaven, I just might sign up.
> Think about it for one second!
Indeed. Israel is certainly going about it all wrong but so is the UN. What
the UN should do, is order an international force to liberate all the Arab
civilians from dictatorships and let them think for themselves for once in
their lives. Of course China being a dictatorship might have a problem with
that. Maybe my personal problem with the whole thing is I believe everyone
should have the right to live under the ideals of the United States
Constitution. Something the US Government does not even seem to believe
anymore.
-Mike Petrucelli
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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| (...) I see. I suppose my problem is that I don't view this as a "conservatives" v "liberals" issue. (...) Hmm. That sounds a little vague. Her reporting appears very selective to me. (...) Perhaps they should never have invaded in '67? *If* it (...) (22 years ago, 13-May-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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| (...) That is *not* what I asked (...) Not "the facts", just the "facts at hand"? What are her information sources? AIPAC? (...) They may not be the "evil oppressors Palestinians portray them to be", but they are still evil oppressors. Just take a (...) (22 years ago, 10-May-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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