Subject:
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Re: Dave's Anti-American Rant (you've been warned) was Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 14 May 2002 14:34:39 GMT
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793 times
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My post was a rant. In oh so many ways I am thankful that our neighbour to
the south is the USofA. I don't think I would be as happy if *any* other
country was our closest trading partner, and I will forgive *any* country's
transgressions that had Gene Roddenberry and Dave Letterman born and raised
in it :) There are so many great things about the south side of the 49th
that I cannot begin to list. I love living on the North American continent.
That said...
There's a difference between America and !!!***AMERICA***!!!
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Costello writes:
> Let me begin my "pro-American" Rant by saying that I do truely love Canada,
> in my heart it is a very close second to the nation of my birth, so please
> do not construe my remarks as "anti-Canadian", as that is not how I intend
> them. But I certainly must stand up for this country in the face of your rant.
>
> > I believe that the most un-American place in the world right now is America.
> > If this 'wonderful' country was founded on 'freedom' and the 'Pursuit of
> > life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness', it ain't showing right now.
> >
> > 'America-Love it or Leave It'?
> >
> > Yeah, nice saying--that really cherishes freedom.
> >
> > So basically, the bottom line, when it all comes down to--the slogan for
> > America should be
> >
> > America--Follow our rules and give us what we want or we'll bomb the
> > proverbial H-E-double hockey sticks outta ya!
>
> I too hate any level of intolerance, no matter what country in which it
> exists. It is hard sometimes when other ignorant people are burning your
> flag and calling for the wholesale death of you and your homeland. Your
> second slogan is way off base, we as a nation have tolerated more than any
> other nation in recent history has been called on to endure. If we were so
> ready to bomb anyone who was different than us countries like Cuba, Iran,
> Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc. would be glowing. We patiently try to
> negotiate and smile while these nations spout their hatred.
While my second slogan was 'off the cuff' and I don't really believe that
America goes out of its way to bomb the heebie jeebies out of everything, I
also don't believe that the words 'patiently try to negotiate and smile
while these nations spout their hatred' are close either. Peaceful
negotiation cannot happen under threat. It's like a school yard bully 'Do
as I say or I have the potential to beat you up.'
America has not been known to 'turn the other cheek' once they've been
slapped. I don't hear the term 'American Peacekeepers' often. I do hear
'America, love it or leave it' all the time. It's on bumper stickers, on
the 'conservative' airwaves, and a whole bunch of other places.
>
> >
> > I don't want to live under the ideals of the United States Constitution. I
> > thank God I'm Canadian every morning when I wake up. 'Can't have publicly
> > run medical system because that 'smacks of communism'--those commie pink-o's'.
> <-snipped much of the medical system talk>
>
> Truth be told the only reason the Canadian medical system works is because
> most Canadians live within 100 miles of the United States. You may
Truth be told our medical system works because we have great doctors, nurses
and support staff. Again, we have our issues, no one is perfect or exempt
from problems. I know that there are strikes, that there are areas for
improvement--I leive here and I hear people spouting on the radio and on
television about how 'bad' our hospitals are. I've been to so many
hospitals in the past 5 years (all my friends are having babies...) from
Ottawa to Windsor (so yes, it's Ontario, whatever) and I talk to people. I
talk to nurses and doctors and they're good. They have gripes (who doesn't)
but this propaganda and yippage is *mostly* noise from union leaders. I
will reiterate--There *are* issues, but it's a great system.
> appreicate the fact that you can stub your toe and have a doctor look at it
> for no charge, but it ruins the integrity of any medical system. Call me
> what you like, but I have an inherrent dislike of govenment regulation of my
> personal life, and having them in the medical system is opening the door
How is having publicly funded and run hospitals intruding into my personal
life? I'm 35 and I have *never* had my life intruded by the medical
profession, the governement, or anyone else that I didn't want to intrude
into my life. My father (62) and mother (59) never had their lives intruded
upon. My Opa (lived to be 92) never had his life intruded on. I don't
understand that point.
> wide open for mismanagement. I, like many others, know someone personally
> who died because she was put on a 8 month waiting list for an MRI.
Privatizing everything leads to the 'money talks, everything else walks'
dichotomy. Those who have the cash are healthy, those that don't have the
cash are unhealthy. Why would I be considered above my fellow person
because I have more cash than they do? Anything can be mismanaged--it
doesn't take the gov't to do that. We do, however, *vote* for our gov't and
we have accountability, so the *mis*management will be found and rectified.
The hospitals are *our* hospitals--they belong to *everyone*.
For every horror story someone can dig up about anything someone else can
dig up a positive story. My dad has Lupus. He gets the best treatment in
the world right here in Canada and you know what? He doesn't have to pay
for it. He doesn't have to worry about where he's going to get the money to
cover his medical costs. Insurance? Premiums? For health? Are you serious?
>
> > The 'big issue' for me is that people need a god. If it's not the God of
> > the Bible, people turn to something else. I believe, and it's only my
> > belief here, that *Americans* have turned to the god
> > Consumerism/Capitalism/whatever you wanna call it. Putting faith in a piece
> > of paper--Look people, the constitution is not some holy relic that has to
> > be cherished above all else. The forefathers were intelligent men who
> > drafted up a piece of paper to start off a nation. They didn't expect this
> > piece of paper to run the nation for the rest of time.
> >
> > If people are ***dieing*** out in your country but you can't change your own
> > gun laws 'cause of what a little piece of paper says, you have a seriously
> > mixed up country.
>
> You have presented a very narrow and ignorant understanding of the
> Constitution and our right to protect ourselves. The Constitution was
> established to maintain the rule of law for the nation and to protect
> individuals against intrusive governments.
Yes, in 1776 on breaking from the British Empire that was a very valid
concern. In 1776 dieing of a paper cut was a valid concern as well.
Taxation without representation was somehting worth standing up for. Are
you represented today in your local, state and federal gov't? Are all your
other Americans represented? Have they been since 1776? Well, I guess you
got what you wanted for the last 200+ years. And yet you still believe that
the gov't might take that away?
THis'll be the only time when I will say, 'Look at Canada' as an example.
We are not part of the British Empire today either, just like our southern
neighbours. But instead of fighting, kicking up a storm, having 'the shot
that was heard 'round the world', a large tea party, etc--a **revolution**,
'we patiently tried to negotiate and smile' whilst evolving into our own.
> The gun debate is far too drawn
> out and divisive to go into now, suffice it to say that I tend to fall on
> the right of citizens to bear arms.
Again, whilst watching the West Wing, a few weeks ago they interviewed real
people who worked in the West Wing. One person related the following ancedote:
When Nixon was impeached he got his kids in the family car at night, drove
up to the White house and mentioned to his kids that 'the most powerful man
in the world' is leaving this house because of the power of the law. Not a
soldier, not a policeman, not a parking maid, not a gun was *anywhere* to be
seen, and yet Nixon left the office of the President of the United States.
Because of *the Law* and not because of threat of gun, did he leave.
This was in the '70s. Thirty years ago. The constitution was written,
what, in 1776? 200+ years ago? This is the 21st century--It may be just me
but the ideals that were held in the 18th century *may* not work now. Wake
up and smell the gunpowder. Your leaders live by example, I think the
country can follow suit. I tend to fall on the side that guns are
ammoral--they're just objects that have no associated *anything*. Hunks of
steel and stuff. Guns are *not* evil. People can weild baseball bats,
axes, knives, hockey sticks ;), and anything else they choose to hurt and/or
kill people. Guns are not needed.
I'm not ignorant. I may be a little idealistic, and I definitly don't know
everything, but in no way shape or form am I ignorant. Narrow minded people
can only see their little world view. They believe that, since their little
view of everyhitng seems to work for them that everyone else should share
that view as well--They get shocked and offended if someone else balks at
their stance.
Narrow minded and ignorant people fight tooth and nail to keep their little
picture at the *expense* of those around them.
Adaptability comes from seeing outside the box, outside the 'small picture'.
>
> > K, I'm also pi$$ed 'cause us Canadians are getting more respect from the
> > West Wing TV show than we are from Dubya and his cohorts.
>
> <another huge snipe>
> > Who in this world is your biggest partner for *anything*. Where is the
> > longest undefended border in the world? Who supplies you with the best
> > actors and actresses ;)
>
> Not only actors and actresses but singers and locations to film our movies
> and television shows, And who can forget the greatest export to ever come
> from Canada, the game of Hockey! (I still haven't warmed up to curling)
'Men With Brooms' is such a bit of Canadiana.
>
> > I'm not part of the political power of Canada so I don't have to 'suck up'
> > to the 'super power' of the world. There is a very old idiom that people
> > would do well to heed--Power corrupts--Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
> > Hello America, you big Super Power you!
>
> Alright time to get serious about the idea of Canada having any real power.
> Besides "tagging along" in our last few major campaigns I think your last
> offensive was against a merchant transport ship, and what an impressive
> victory it was.
Canada is not a power by any stretch of the imagination. We don't want
'power'. I never said that Canada was a power. My point, which was
obviously missed was that America is the super power. I think I'm not the
only one that says that. Since the Soviet Empire fell, you are the last
vestige of 'super power'. I went on to say that absolute power corrupts
absolutely, in reference to specifically America. I'll cite historical
examples:
Roman Empire
British Empire
U.S.S.R.
America
The common denominator: Societies that *believed inherently* that their way
was right. There was no adaptation to the changing times. There was
corruption from within. The mighty oak may stand proud and be viewed as
inspiring to the rest of the forest but the dead and rotting wood within is
not exposed until it's too late.
>
> Look our system is not perfect by any streach of the imagination, but it is
> far better than most. Whenever you have a country that fosters freedom you
> will have those who abuse their rights. Remember God gives all men freedom,
> governments take them away. I personally wish our nation (dubya included)
> would work more toward a free market or truely capitalistic society.
Again, proving my point that capitalism and free market is the 'god' of
America to aspire to. It's the 'god' that America wants to thrust on the
rest of the known world. Are you telling me that it's better than what
other nations are doing? That on the grande scale of human kind that
Capitalism is at the top of the heap? That after we acquire this 'god'
there is no next step?
The major problem with capitalism is that it focuses on the movement of
small bits of green paper--and it's not the green bits of paper which are
unhappy about it--it's those who don't have alotta little green bits of
paper. Capitalism does not ignore the poor, it stomps on them.
>
> Finally I want to reemphasize that I really do love Canada, unless we are
> playing you at hockey (I am still disappointed at the silver). And I will be
> the happiest guy when you guys finally give up trying and become the next
> batch of states, and we can call our selves the United States of North
> America. Although can we leave Quebec out of it? :)
>
> Scott
Yes Canada has a few issues--I really don't know how to convince our French
brothers that I love them and think they are a wonderful asset and unique
part of Canada. I have been to Quebec many times and have tried my high
school french there, much to the laughter of my French brothers. I do
believe that we are a stronger country together than apart, but I also
beleive that we each must choose our own destiny, and that if Quebec decides
to go off on their own, I support that as well.
I also hope and pray that we never become part of the United States. I
appreciate, as I've stated many many times thru my life, the United States
of America, but I don't want to *be* American. I love our flag (far less
loud and busy than that stars and stripes thing, tho if I were into loud
flags, the Stars and Stripes would definitly be what I would want ;) ), I
love our country, and I just love being Canadian :)
Dave
-Vive Le Canada
*the preceeding rant should in no way shape or form be held as the
prevailing view of any other Canadian. These are *my* views and my views
alone. As well, my views are subject to change as more information is
gleaned and assimilated into my world view from discussion and/or discourse.
Resistance is floor tile.
(Thanks Gene!)
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