Subject:
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Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 22 May 2002 08:18:44 GMT
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Viewed:
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879 times
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> > Israel was able to clear 80% of Palestinians
> > from the area (~700,000 individuals), I happen to think that had more to do
> > with their aggression than it does alleged reports of "Jewish Vampires".
> > However, I don’t see why the Palestinians should not be allowed to return
> > even if their fears were ill founded. Analogy: If I flee from my home in the
> > ill founded belief that is on fire, should I not be allowed to return?
> >
> > If a family has lived on the same plot of land for generations, why should
> > they be removed without compensation to provide a home for an economic
> > migrant from the former USSR?
>
> How about people that moved into an area 1-2 years before the the country was
> formed by the UN. The only reason they moved there was because the Arab
> countries were trying to discourage the UN from putting Israel there in the
> first place.
That does not really answer my question. Your point, even if true, does not
justify Israel’s actions in any way. Does it?
> > > > 2. Why should the Arab states support them? Because they share a religion?
> > >
> > > The Arab states forcably exiled the Jews living in their countries. Israel • did
> > > not force those people into refugee camps like the Arab countries did to the
> > > Palestinians, they accepted them as citizens.
> >
> >
> > Now Mike, I expect you know well that Israel was actually encouraging Jews
> > to move to the region, it is hardly surprising they did not put them in
> > refugee camps!
>
> And what about the land that was stolen were they compensated for that?
To be honest, I have no idea.
> > > [snip]
> > > > > but at the same time why is no one critizising Palestinian actions?
> > > >
> > > > Now you are being paranoid! They do Mike. Check the Amnesty and HRW sites.
> > >
> > > The problem is most news agencies are making excuses for the Palestinians,
> > > saying they are acting out of desperation and such.
> >
> > It's true. Take a look at how they live, and how their leaders have sold
> > them out time-after-time.
>
> Yep, their leaders blame it all on Israel and the people mindlessly believe
> them. The few Palestinians that try to think for themselves are executed as
> Israeli collaborators. Israel is not keep the Palestinians oppressed the PLO
> and Arab governments are. They are Israel hating pawns just like they are
> supposed to be.
I can't agree with that view.
> >
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > > > > > I do support Israel's right to fight back
> > > > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Do the Palestinians not have the “right to fight back”?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From Israel offering peace?!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, fight back against Israeli agrression!
> > > > >
> > > > > So they start a fight and cry 'wolf' when they lose?
> > > >
> > > > I don't agree with that analogy. If we accept that the west bank and gaza
> > > > are occupied terrotories, the Palastinians have the right to fight back
> > > > against the forces of occupation (not civilians).
> > >
> > > If the above situation were true I would most certainly agree with it. Of
> > > coure 97 percent the West Bank and Gaza was NOT occupied since 1993.
> >
> > Not quite true:
> > http://www.opendemocracy.net/forum/document_details.asp?CatID=127&DocID=1380
> > "The map shows how the built-up areas of the settlements constitute only
> > 1.7% of the land in the West Bank, but their municipal boundaries and
> > regional councils now control a total of 41.9% of the land."
> >
> > The map:
> > http://www.opendemocracy.net/document_store/Doc1380-5.pdf
> >
> > > Barak
> > > offered to give the rest back in exchange for peace. Arafat did not accept.
> > > Only after the Palestinians spent 18 months suicide bombing civilians did
> > > Israel's army finally retaliate by invading. You would think that Arafat • would
> > > have learned that lesson in 1967, but then again most of the world is now
> > > criticizing Israel and making excuses for Palestinians.
> >
> > As I have said before, Barak could not even guarantee that offer as it would
> > have to be validated in a referendum.
>
> So even though Barak was elected because he wanted to work for peace, the
> people would not have supported him?
Peace on Israel's terms? Barak went to the talks knowing Arafat would not
bargain away Jerusalem. Even within the talks Barak was backtracking:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1446000/1446673.stm
>
> > Even so, what stopped him from making a
> > second offer? Do you feel Arafat was obliged to accept the offer simply
> > because it was made to him?
>
> Considering he was offered basicly everything he claimed to Western diplomats
> to want, it seems odd that he did not accept. Oh wait, then he would have no
> excuse to order terrorist attacks with the intent to destroy Israel.
Do you really believe this?
> >
> > > If the Palestinians
> > > ONLY wanted the West Bank and Gaza it had already been offered.
> >
> > Not all of it - we both agree on that much. What about Jerusalem? Have they
> > no right to that?
>
> Barak also offered Arafat a capital in Jerusalem.
But not the capital of Jerusalem. Have they no right to it?
> >
> > > The current
> > > terror campaign is intended to bring about what Arafat wanted all along, the
> > > destruction of Israel.
> >
> > That is the aim of some involved. Some in Israel want to do the same to the
> > Palestinians - do you accept that?
>
> Some in Israel is a little different than all of the Arab countries.
Indeed, Israel is the regional super-power with nuclear weapons. ;)
Scott A
=+=
Have you inspected Arthur’s Seat yet?
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=scotta
"A reasonable man adapts himself to suit his environment. An unreasonable
man persists in attempting to adapt his environment to suit himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." (GBS)
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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| (...) circle?) (...) they (...) How about people that moved into an area 1-2 years before the the country was formed by the UN. The only reason they moved there was because the Arab countries were trying to discourage the UN from putting Israel (...) (22 years ago, 18-May-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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