Subject:
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Re: Debunk this?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:14:57 GMT
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Viewed:
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549 times
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David:
Okay, now we are caught up in nit-picking over the incidents of both sides
and what constitutes protecting citizens when some of them are de facto PLO
members who oppose and resent Israeli rule. We might as well stop here...
No one is innocent.
Just for the record, I would not have favored the creation of the state of
Israel way back when. But I wasn't even alive at that time, and niether
were many of the Israelis living there now. For that matter neither were
many of the Palestinians. I think this makes many people over there today
innocent of the mistakes of their mothers and fathers. I would think that
most people could at least see that many modern day Israelis and
Palestininians are inheriting a problem not of their own creation. Sadly,
they are playing out the predictable game of "blood feud" even so.
And it is the case that some of the people that actually had a hand in
creating the current fiasco are still with us today -- there they are as
bigoted and hateful as ever. But I'll give them this -- it's hard not to
dislike an enemy who has been hurting your loved ones and neighbors. Such
animosity is easy to understand and after a while -- after a long and
violent struggle -- it's hard to recognize one's own responsibility in
getting the blood feud started.
That's where we find ourselves today in trying to resolve a VERY old conflict.
In my lifetime I have favored the creation of two equal states in the lands
occupied by both Israelis and Palestinians -- two states that can leave each
other alone. And I have favored a U.N. controlled Jerusalem, not because I
love the U.N. (because I SO do NOT) but because they had a hand in creating
this mess and they can have a hand in resolving the conflict as well -- and
I would think with greater neutrality than how the matter began, and
certainly with greater neutrality than either side engaging in the blood feud.
BTW, I hope that no one has mistaken anything I have stated as some sort of
unrelenting support for the PLO, who currently have some of my sympathy
because I have heard even Jewish people (Jewish people I know personally,
and also in the media) speak out against some of the recent treatment of the
Palestinians. I hear horror in their voices for the kinds of actions they
think Jews should never take considering their own victimization in this
last century. That doesn't suddenly make the Palestinians a band of angels
-- there is blood on their hands as well (just as bad, just as good as their
Israeli counterparts in my view). What I see is a never-ending conflict as
things stand. As I have said elsewhere, both sides being wrong doesn't make
anyone right.
The only solution is going to be one in which both sides agree that they are
not going to get everything they want. Palestinians are not going home
again, and neither are they likely to be compensated for the lands taken
from them. And, of course, the Palestinians need to agree to peace
(something they have not always been particularly good about, to say the
least). At the same time, I would think that in the effort to bring peace
about, Israel could desist from attacking the sufficiently beaten down ranks
of the PLO and accept less than what they are demanding and trying to expand
upon by conquest (as far as I can see). They need to sacrifice a currently
claimed piece of land in favor of a lasting peace, and they need to give the
Palestinians true independence.
If both sides could agree to some final peace, we would all be the better
for it.
As a citizen of the U.S. I do not favor support of the state of Israel any
more so than I would favor support for the Palestinians -- I favor them both
in peace instead. You can see that no one is following my brand of foreign
policy, and this partisan support for Israel is getting us into more trouble
than it's worth.
Going back to the article that started this tiresome (tiresome because it
does little more than reify in microcosm why the world seems like such a
nasty place) discussion:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-stillman092001.shtml
All I can say is we get what we deserve. If Palestinians rejoice in our
misfortunes (which is sad), they do so because they do not view us as
particularly good friends to their cause, and perhaps even as a kind of
enemy (the friend of my enemy is also my enemy?).
Actually, I have to wonder what Larry's point was -- is this supposed to
surprise us? I don't so much want to debunk this news as much as ask why
the U.S. continues with foreign policies that continue to make us enemies in
the world. Shouldn't the U.S. stand for peace and otherwise remain aloof of
political balls of confusion like the Middle-east?
As far as this World Press Freedom Committee stuff goes, all I can say is
the writer of this piece must be kidding (or at least fooling himself). The
whole point of atrocity is to have it whispered about and hardly ever
documented. I don't see the U.S. going to any great lengths to reveal our
R&D on biological weapons or torture techniques. True freedom of the press,
free of propaganda and selective coverage, will only happen when there is
peace in the world and nothing left to expose. I could say more, but why
bother -- on the face of it this part of the article was just denying
reality. At the heart of it is an admirable goal that will come to nothing
for a very long time.
-- Hop-Frog
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Debunk this?
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| (...) Of course. I was answering certain accusations and not listing all that I see wrong in modern day Israel. surely, Mr. Gilon is not who Daniel Jasim referred to as a "terrorist (by America's very own definition)". I'm sure no one in the (...) (23 years ago, 24-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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