Subject:
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Re: Debunk this?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 24 Sep 2001 02:07:32 GMT
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Viewed:
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540 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> David:
>
> You seem to be pretty selective about what you are willing to comment on.
> For some information that flies in the face of your assertions about modern
> day Israel, please see:
Of course. I was answering certain accusations and not listing all that I see
wrong in modern day Israel.
surely, Mr. Gilon is not who Daniel Jasim referred to as a "terrorist (by
America's very own definition)". I'm sure no one in the American government
considers Karmi Gilon a terrorist.
I'm pretty sure that no one in the Israeli government is considered a
terrorist by the American government beside long gone politicians for their
actions 60 years ago.
> http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,285-2001255970,00.html
>
> I don't know the reputation of The Times, but the article contains
> information I have from other sources as well. This part is interesting:
>
> "Mr Jensen`s statement came after a dispute broke out when Mr Gillon, who
> headed Israel`s Shin Bet domestic intelligence service between 1994 and
> 1996, told a Danish newspaper soon after his appointment as Ambassador was
> announced, that Israel might return to the use of torture, which he
> described as "moderate physical pressure", in the fight against terrorism. "
>
> Have you stopped torturing your people, Mr. Sharon?
Is that your line?
It seems out of context:
1) The moderate physical pressure was always directed at terrorist
organizations and not at Israeli citizens.
2) The court ruling that outlawed even that was passed long before Sharon came
to power.
> Please note the even-handed coverage of the article, which also contains • this:
>
> "Palestinian killings of civilians, including of unarmed Jewish settlers on
> the West Bank, and acts of terror against civilians perpetrated by the
> Palestine Liberation Organisation during the 1970s and 1980s mean that
> Yassir Arafat and many senior members of his entourage could also face
> arrest anywhere in Europe if, as one senior lawyer put it, "there was enough
> political will to do so"."
>
> Everyone being wrong doesn't make anyone right.
>
> -- Hop-Frog (Your friendly neighborhood anti-torture guy)
The question of the use of moderate physical pressure to stop murderous
terrorist acts is a very difficult one.
On one hand, most experts agree that those measures saved many lives of
innocent civilians in the past. On the other hand, it's very difficult to
ensure that those measures will be used only in extreme cases of obvious life
saving situations.
Israel has dealt with this issue a lot and the question have been brought
before the courts several times. The current situation is that any kind of
physical pressure is illegal in Isreal and in at least two cases I know of
members of the Shin Bet were convicted according to that law.
I can only say that it's very easy to pass criticism when you feel safe and
powerful. When people feel their lives are threatened sometimes they get off
the high moral grounds and make hard decisions.
Having said that, I do feel that the current law in Israel is better than the
previous situation.
- David
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Debunk this?
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| David: Okay, now we are caught up in nit-picking over the incidents of both sides and what constitutes protecting citizens when some of them are de facto PLO members who oppose and resent Israeli rule. We might as well stop here... No one is (...) (23 years ago, 24-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Debunk this?
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| David: You seem to be pretty selective about what you are willing to comment on. For some information that flies in the face of your assertions about modern day Israel, please see: (URL) don't know the reputation of The Times, but the article (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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