 | | Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Everyone, We are facing a major problem in numbering parts in LDraw. For quite some time I have been trying to follow a 3 rule plan for numbering pieces: 1. Full accuracy when possible 2. Use official TLG numbers if we have them 3. Use temporary (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) This is my vote. If 4106548 is always yellow, without exception, hard-code the yellow color in the .DAT. (but see below) A possibly more sensible alternative is to do parts 30086 and 30087 each as color 16, and do a (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Hmmm.. well, we *could* have them all... use 30086 and 30087 as the two parts of the dinghy... then have part 4106548 simply reference the two "subparts" and have this "element model" hard-coded in yellow... anyone wanting to use a different (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) time (...) Some things to think about: It would be irritating in Ldraw to have to page through lists that look like this: xxxxx.dat Blah blah blah X blah Tr. Yellow-Green yyyyy.dat Blah blah blah X blah Gold zzzzz.dat Blah blah blah X blah (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Terry K wrote in message <36d5fd53.5480877@lu...et.com>... (...) seemingly (...) number (...) both (...) I thought you had to break the two halves apart to get at the 30087 number. Do you have to break it apart? If so can you use them afterward? If (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Sproaticus wrote in message ... (...) My vote would be to use the part number that people can see with out takeing apart the boat, i.e. the 30086 number. The 30087 number is only of value if you take the boat apart. Somthing I feel very few people (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) I am *SOOO* happy that Terry and Joshua (and others) are anal-retentive enough and pedantic enough -- and thorough enough -- to bring this sort of thing up. Just imagine what a mess it would all be if nobody cared... This is really cool, guys! (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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I recall hearing once that the chrome parts had to be made from a different mold than non-chrome parts because the coating added some thickness. So on the chrome version, e.g. the plastic studs would be a little smaller. Also, I'd expect molds for (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Well, to be honest, I just want to get a firm consensus on the best way to number these things. Something that will (hopefully) be agreable to the majority of users. Something I can use without greying too many more hairs. The real problem is (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Paul Gyugyi wrote in message <36D65C66.E5F7A69@gy...yi.com>... (...) to (...) part/tracking (...) This is certainly true with metallic elements, but with clear I don't think so since ABS resin or any plastic resin I've seen is basic clear amber (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Red? COOL! I need I need I need gimme gimme gimme I need I need (1) Where can I get some? Cheers, - jsproat 1. Name *that* movie, I dare you! :-, (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Damn. They noticed. After the chrome antenna fiasco, I swore to keep my mouth shut, and not point out potential part-number mixups. Actually, I forgot all about that little trivial bit of part-numbering reality on the obviously (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) In this case, I say use the number stamped on the part. (...) Did we decide to move away from the xxxxPxx format? This sounds like a good reason to rethink that decision. Not that I expect this particular element to ever resurface in a (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Accessory pack #5131. Steve (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) It seems to me that the only reason on TLG's part to have 2 seperate numbers and then one different aggregate number for a specific color is to provide for a situation in which the two pieces are different colors (ie: black top, yellow (...) (25 years ago, 26-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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At the risk of being flamed into lurk mode, I'm going to ask the following: Why do we need the official TLG part numbers? Why not just use a numbering system that makes sense? (25 years ago, 27-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Why (...) If I'm converting a physical model to Ldraw, its nice to be able to look at part, find its molded number, then add that number to my model. This of course only works for parts with numbers on them. This also argues for somehow (...) (25 years ago, 27-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) The problem with that solution is that we would then have the 4106548 hard coded as yellow. And when the tan version is released are we then going to have another 410xxxx for it - hard coded to tan? That may not seem like a big deal, until you (...) (25 years ago, 27-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Is it not possible to say in the definition of 410etc., like: top half yellow, lower half yellow underneath. That way, the only information in the 410etc file is the color, and which constituents parts there are. Then if anything needs to (...) (25 years ago, 27-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) I concur. Part of the beauty and flexibility of LDraw is that you can model with parts in colors that those parts don't come in. Once we start down the road of having parts hard coded only in the color(s) they really exist in, we limit our (...) (25 years ago, 27-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) So _that's_ how you do it. I knew there had to be a better way. :) (...) Thanks, that makes sense to me. (25 years ago, 27-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) method > for other parts - parts that may well come in many colors. Then, using that (...) I > would prefer to have one basic version of the part, color being > user-selectable. (...) But it would be nice to at least have a .dat file for each (...) (25 years ago, 27-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <36d6fef8.20191570@l...et.com>... (...) doesn't (...) Six Red ones come in the Extreme Team: Drag Race Rally, 6568. And I know I have some from other sets. They're around.... How badly do you want them? A local Kmart (...) (25 years ago, 28-Feb-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) You've just hit on my pet peeve with the approach of using the most official numbers for LDraw parts -- often, the most official number is *not* the one you find stamped on the part. This will be true if: - You are looking at a multi-part (...) (25 years ago, 1-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) I think TLG's numbering always boils down to manufacturing and inventory control. A part number is needed for each molded part, so each subpart needs its own number. And the aggregate, post-gluing part needs a number to track its insertion (...) (25 years ago, 1-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) That's not much better, because a new part-file is still required whenever a new color is released. Steve "I should probably keep these responses in the outbox until after I've read all 60 incoming messages" Bliss (25 years ago, 1-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Why don't we reference these part numbers as comments in the part-file, perhaps on a 0 KEYWORDS line? Although that would be a headache to deal with, making sure that all new parts get all the appropriate part numbers... Steve (25 years ago, 1-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <36daaf01.8075147@lu...et.com>... (...) I'd say you're most certainly right here since their numbering system would be for premarket tracking and not as we would use it in the post-market. Does anyone know if TLG sells (...) (25 years ago, 1-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) about (...) part (...) That still wouldn't make it possible in Ldraw to (I)nsert a new piece, change the (P)art number, then type the part number of the part which is in your hand, and have it inserted. Multi-part parts are a problem, of (...) (25 years ago, 1-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) True, you wouldn't be able to use the related part numbers as parts, but you could search for them (especially once some software uses the KEYWORDS and CATEGORY meta-commands) (...) That would be the problem. Are these real parts, or not? If (...) (25 years ago, 1-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Why's that such a big problem? I mean... it's not like a 20 byte part file, or 10000 of them, will take up a significant amount of space. Especially zipped, when you don't have to worry about cluster sizes. By the time there are so many (...) (25 years ago, 1-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) The big problem is someone has to notice the new color, and then someone has to make the change in the next part update. Why subject ourselves to this headache? (...) But we aren't zipped, and there are plenty of people with Win95/FAT16 hard (...) (25 years ago, 2-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Sometimes I really can't understand the exact point that people want to come up with those type of conclusions, because, simply checking out the prior examples of same kind, which are already implemented with the ongoing system, just show the (...) (25 years ago, 4-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) We were just pondering TLG's motivation for their part-numbering system. (...) I look at the minifig shortcuts more as helper files. They are meant to be copied and modified. (...) Only some of the parts. Not most. At least, that's where I am. (...) (25 years ago, 4-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Selçuk wrote in message ... (...) come (...) Actually, you could consider some of the digressions as idle chatter until something more interesting comes up. Unless the idle chatter IS more interesting. (...) None the less, speculation as to why TLG (...) (25 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Karim (knassar@mindspring.com) wrote: [...] (...) I am aware of the problems with using a different number for the part file than the one (visibly) stamped on the part, but I think it would be sufficient if a comment in the dinghy bottom (and top) (...) (25 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Terry K (legoverse@geocities.com) comments Karim's "30086.dat" and "30087.dat" in colour 16, and "4106548.dat" in yellow/yellow suggestion (which I support): (...) Yes. The problem is that this is a multi-mold part which is likely to appear in (...) (25 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) i agree completely... i say we handle our parts/sub parts in the same way TLG does... if glued-parts have 2 separate numbers, then lets model both halves separately, then use any conglomerate numbers for complete elements.. if they are (...) (25 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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onyx wrote in message ... (...) library (...) possible... a (...) organize/search (...) Here you miss the point that some of us don't care a flip for TLG's nomemclature. TLG has its own reason for using it that doesn't make any sense for what we (...) (25 years ago, 6-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) For now, that would be a good solution. Of course, Steve would need to split the pieces first. (...) I finally just released it as 104.dat in color 16. A compromise of sorts. The problem is, other pieces will (do) have the same problem. The (...) (25 years ago, 6-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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onyx skrev i meddelandet ... (...) organize/search (...) If we didn't have to have compatibility with the original programs, LDRAW/LEDIT, the obvious step would be to make a database of all the parts, which would mean more effective use of the hard (...) (25 years ago, 6-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) I do. The parts I use the most (Technic axles, cross blocks, bushings, pins and so on), I also remember the number for. But I'm helpless without a list which can be used to look up the ones I can't remember, obviously. Fredrik (25 years ago, 8-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) I'll look into it. The main problems are (1) I'm not sure it can be done without rewriting the existing code, which I don't *really* feel like doing. And (2) I'm not planning on cutting a dinghy open to see what the inside looks like. So any (...) (25 years ago, 8-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) I'm only alright with hard-coded colors, IF they are somehow marked as not being primary parts. I would not want them all listed in as being available for building, just because it would eventually lead to parts-overload. You'd get about a (...) (25 years ago, 8-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) in all honesty, all i use LDraw for... to document my creations so that i have a record before i tear them apart... the only reason i model specific elements for the catalog is because i want/need them to document a RL model (well, sometimes (...) (25 years ago, 8-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) I agree wholeheartedly... The point I tried to make earlier, was that it seems that by giveing seperate part numbers to the part, TLG is leaveing open the possibility in the future to release a part that is in two SEPARATE colors. So, my (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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onyx wrote in message ... (...) you're (...) don't (...) the (...) that (...) basic (...) to (...) LDraw (...) that (...) i (...) You've got my support here. I don't care to use LDraw as a TLG reference ...just wanna model. We need to follow the (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) that (...) possibility (...) question (...) great point.. and well thought-out... hmmmm... okay... so then as i see it we have two options.. #1 (my preference, since this is how we handle two halves of every hinge, wheel-tyre combo, etc.. (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) 1. Understood. 2. That's a given. I don't really expect to see detail. It is not something that would be a requirement, IMO. (...) No idea. It was news to me. Joshua might know something about it, but he never mentioned that one to me. (...) I (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) The problem is a bit more narrow than that. Basic pieces, like the 1x2 brick, are not affected by all this numbering/coloring controversy. Those pieces had a simple part number that is common to all the colors. So we would NOT be having (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Just to be a pain: there are existing 'glued-together' parts in LDraw with sub-files for each component part and a main short-cut file for the whole thing. Two that spring to mind are the 2x2x11 pillar and the classic 2x4 plate hinge. (...) (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) I wonder -- are there color-specific part numbers for the dinghy, because it is a compound element? So if we publish two sub-files, and no shortcut, we skip the whole issue. But not publishing a shortcut seems really lame. The "part" is final (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) hehe.. i can always count on you to be a pain, steve... :) every morning i come in here and check this thread and i can see everyone's point with equal value... i started in on this convo from the standpoint of "2 #16 parts, then aggregate (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) We could go that route, just have the two halves and no shortcut. The important thing is this would still be an accurate use of the numbers, but without carring it to the logical extreme and having the complete part. (...) True. Note that in (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) True. As the best way to keep everyone at least somewhat happy. (...) I don't want to over-use 3-digit numbers. Only where necessary and unavoidable. For instance; The complete yellow dinghy does have the correct number. So we can make a (...) (25 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <36e52d27.5283445@lu...et.com>... (...) Not that I think this should affect the outcome of this discussion or anything, but there is at least one part that has a 7xxxx number stamped on it. The gold insectoid eye (i.e. (...) (25 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) You rang? :-P The pink raft (dinghy is too much typing :-) can be seen here: (URL) Now the canoe is a different matter....... Oh gawd. :-P When even *I* get the joke, it's old news Terry. -- joshua (25 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Well then; Surprise! :-P The following 7xxxx numbers are embossed on elements: 70163 Metal Counter-Weight Wedge 70942 1x2 Tile, Top Center Ball: Chrome 70969 Mini-Figure Exhaust Pipe, Right: Chrome 70972 Mini-Figure Exhaust Pipe, Left: Chrome (...) (25 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) LDAO could be set up to ignore any unique marker in the descriptive name. At this time, any user can do it themselves, by editing the ldraw.ini. The default settings ignore moved files, 'delete me' files, and light.dat. (...) I'm assuming (...) (25 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) ...I might disagree with that point... (...) And on then at 05:14:29 GMT, Joshua Delahunty <dulcaoin@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu> wrote: (...) :-P, yourself. (...) Wow. Blows my theory. Do we know if, in these examples, the numbers are color-specific? (...) (25 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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Hi! Steve Bliss skrev i meddelandet <36e6742d.1574130@lu...et.com>... (...) will (...) Have You tried my search program? Version 3.4 of LDLIST is available for download at (URL) Summary: Ldlist is a little Windows program made for searching the (...) (25 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) Yes, I use it often. It's Extremely Wonderful. (...) That would be great. I'm planning on adding support for KEYWORDS and CATEGORY to LDAO, but haven't had the time yet... Steve (25 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) At this point, after this much time, I consider the canoe to be a time-honored joke. To be used at every available opportunity. :-) -- Terry K -- (25 years ago, 11-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) agreed again... my point being that TLG *may* use different element numbers to differentiate between certain parts in different colors (perhaps not 1x2 bricks) but that our concern should only be separate part numbers when the physical makeup (...) (25 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Part Numbering Crisis in LDraw
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(...) ^^^...^^^ Agreed, except that in the case of the 1x2 brick -- there are two molds still in use today: one with a post down the center and one without. The one without the post is of course the one used for little windows -- like in (...) (25 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | chrome/aluminum/silver
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(...) TLG called it Silver last year. --Todd (25 years ago, 15-Mar-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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