Debate : 2360


Off-Topic / Debate / 2360

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Denscombe

(...) Sell or auction? (...) That's a good idea. No problem with that. (...) Well Paul just did a standard profit margin on what he paid for them - since LEGO Denmark had them on the cheap because they wanted to clear them out - the end price was (...) (25 years ago, 8-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

I figured I'd let this percolate for a while before I responded. First a side point, auctioning IS selling. What else would it be? You all know my stance on it, it's the fairest way to allocate a scarce quantity. And it is a kind of sale. Now, I'm (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Good for you, good for him. Good for everyone. Down with whining. (...) You shouldn't have, unless you wanted to. I've known about BB for a LONG time. I've never felt the urge to order from them even for some Castle stuff I might have wanted, (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Scott Edward Sanburn

This whole subject is a rehash from a debate from a few months ago, but it keeps surfacing... (...) I hope not as well. Larry is as sharp as ever. I love reading both of your responses. It is refreshing to see people of your caliber (both Larry & (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Well, that's very flattering. But I don't even know if I qualify as a disciple of Larritarianism (sp?). If you ask people who know me I just *think* I never make mistakes. (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —John Neal

(...) All Hail Larry! To become a Larritarian, one must merely send along the brick offering to Lar. Larritarians make misteaks like everyone else; just not Larry;-) -John, speaking for Tom and (Gary) -John (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Steve Bliss

(...) Drat! I sold all my technic half-pins. Those would have gotten me in for sure. Steve (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

(...) You'd get in because you had good intentions. But then you'd be given tasks where you could not hurt yourself, because what I actually NEED scads of are the 1.2l pins (technic loose pin on one side, open top stud on the other) I have a (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) I'll try to find it, but if you can give me an LDraw part # for this I'll hold any I come across in breaking up sets for you. (...) Hrmmm... any color, but only the top half. Ok. (25 years ago, 12-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

(...) I believe it's this one: (URL) >I have a standing offer on those, as well as on 1x2 tilting top hinges (...) Whoops? I want both halves. It's a tilting-top hinge... I just hate hyphens so I omitted it. so I want the top and bottom halves of (...) (25 years ago, 13-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Steve Bliss

(...) identified as "Technic Pin 1/2". :p Steve (25 years ago, 13-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

<slrn806rtr.6kl.cjc@...s.utk.edu> <38040341.B0CCD15D@voyager.net> <3804e2ee.530068915@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Which is "wrong", right? That is, it's the LDraw name, but not a (...) (25 years ago, 13-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun, lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Steve Bliss

(...) Right, it's inaccurate. A better name Would be "Technic Pin 1/2 with Stud". That would match up with part #6587, Technic Axle 3 with Stud. Steve (25 years ago, 14-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun, lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Edward Sanburn writes: OK - as your posting was mostly just an 'I agree' response to what Larry wrote, I wouldn't have thought of replying to it - until I saw this. (...) The following applies to you Scott, Mike (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) or: (c) Don't always have enough time to spend on a well-reasoned reply that will ultimately fall on the deaf ears of someone whose opinions are simply wrong-headed. (...) Most people who actually engage in debates have no intention of being (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Scott Edward Sanburn

Simon, (...) Heaven forbid I might use a word. (...) As I do yours, but I digress. (...) I can tell you things about political name calling, but I don't feel like bringing that up again. (...) First of all, Simon, I was not really replying to you, I (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —John Neal

Scott Edward Sanburn wrote: <snippage of some pointless flames [come on, guys]> (...) This is just a random post to something Scott said, but it made me think of why I was a Liberal and why I'm not completely Libertarian. It has to do with stuff. I (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Scott Edward Sanburn

John, (...) Pointless, yes, as always, but still there. I'm used to getting crispy every now and then, part of debate, I guess. (...) I don't think it is wrong. If that's the way they want to be, that is their right, unless the government intervenes (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Jasper Janssen

(...) Fairness was moist emphatically not enforced in the USSR. Marxism has never happened. (...) I wonder where you get your figures. My figures say the costs of administration of the US welfare system are about 2% of the total sum paid out. (...) (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) and mine say they can go as high as 70%. 2% admin for a US government program? Laughable. (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Last I head, from the Congressional Budget office figures, about 7 out of 8 dollars go to the administering of the programs, not the recipients, so whenever they talk about putting more money there, it is for the people running it, not the people on (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Christopher Lannan

(...) whenever (...) Not only the huge costs of dispensing the money in these programs, but I have heard that 50% of the money that the IRS collects is spent collecting it. That seems like a terrible waste to me. Flat sales taxes anyone? Chris (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Sales tax, at least for the state (Michigan) is flat. How about a flat income tax, or a consumption tax even? Anything is better than the awful monstrosity of the Federal tax system. Scott S. "I have worked harder than I ever have in my entire (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Christopher Lannan

(...) have (...) That (...) of (...) you a (...) I guess that's what I mean- there would be no taxes except for about a 20% sale tax on most things (I know there's going to be folks saying what about this and that, milk, diapers, should folks on the (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —John DiRienzo

Christopher Lannan wrote in message ... (...) it. (...) income (...) monstrosity (...) no (...) the (...) the (...) it (...) Instead of spending our time figuring new dumb ways to tax people, I have an idea (1)... how about not taxing people? I like (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) A nice idea, true, but one that is impractical, as of right now. I would love not to be taxed, but I don't think it is practical. Our current society needs to pay for certain things (I.E., military, roads, etc.), but not in the way, the (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Christopher Lannan

(...) to (...) There has got to be a better way. A drastic measure is not such a bad idea. Its too bad, I think, that our current system of govt/economy is so established at this point, and protects itself so jealously, that really we probably won't (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —John DiRienzo

Christopher Lannan wrote in message ... (...) have (...) lot. (...) the (...) or (...) there (...) waste. (...) love (...) needs (...) the (...) anything (...) miserably- (...) we (...) bad (...) Unfortunely, (...) herself. (...) anyway, (...) (...) (25 years ago, 13-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: Hmmm - interesting. Some good points there about what actually happened with the blue hoppers. Unfortunately, although you've responded to points made by several other people, you haven't directly (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) OK, what if I buy up ten of them now at $35 each from Larry or wherever with the intent of holding them for a year and selling them for $60. That's still a useful service. There are a whole slew categories of customers that would be receiving (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

(...) That's an interesting one, which you could argue on both sides. Oddly, the service you'd claim to be providing here is as much as anything a redistribution service - from people who want sets now to people who may want the sets next year (...) (25 years ago, 13-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Cute. I think the difference is that one is voluntary. (...) I guess what you're talking about is whether there is a net benefit. Clearly I'd be benifitting some people - the ones who buy them from me. (...) This must be why I prefer the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

A few nits. Clarifications, really. (...) And as long as it doesn't violate the rights of others. (remember, free goods are not a right, nor is it a right that you must accept custom from anyone) (...) or fraud. But of course I hold fraud to be a (...) (25 years ago, 13-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Well, I sort of meant that if everyone affected by the deal agrees to it, then nothing else matters. I assume you agree that you can waive your rights if you so choose. (...) I know that Libertarians are into the Force 'n' Fraud phrase, and I (...) (25 years ago, 15-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

(...) If you're asking me for a legal definition, I'm not sure. but my common sense opinion is that common sense is indeed required. (...) Here I think i am on a bit firmer ground when I say that I think, legally, saying something is one way when (...) (25 years ago, 15-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —James Brown

(...) Hmm. What about selling stock off in advance of the release of bad news? This happened quite recently with Correl Corp... Shortly before they announced lower than expected profits (dropping the stock price), the president sold off 1/3 of his (...) (25 years ago, 15-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

(...) You seem to imply there's a difference between being 'wrong' and being 'unsavoury', but I can't see any difference in principle - perhaps a small difference of degree in that 'unsavoury' implies a smaller amount of wrongness. Also, aren't you (...) (25 years ago, 18-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) OK, I guess I don't know what 'wrong' means in a judgemental sense. I'm not even sure that I'm willing to acknowledge that it means anything. I'll listen if you want to define it though. If someone hurts my loved ones I'm pretty liberal in (...) (25 years ago, 18-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

(...) I'm not so sure of that. Once you've got the sets that you're (hypothetically) planning on holding for a year, there's nothing anyone who wants to buy the sets earlier than that can do. This redistribution may have been instigated by a private (...) (25 years ago, 18-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) OK, it's as voluntary as anything ever is. I don't feel responsible to make things better than they can be. (...) Well, I don't think anyone is harmed - unless I spend so much that I can't buy groceries. So the net benefit of the transactions (...) (25 years ago, 18-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —John DiRienzo

Christopher Weeks wrote in message <380B0F8D.112B4FA6@e...se.net>... (...) may (...) it (...) given (...) road, (...) I gotta agree - if somebody dies because of a person's actions, whether intended or not, they are still dead. Instead of locking (...) (25 years ago, 26-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) Taking this remark out of the post.. So what you're saying is, someone, not the state, should have the right to decide that a) someone is guilty b) that the crime deserves death c) that he has the right to do this. So essentially, a random (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Frank Filz

(...) As I understand what Larry has been saying, and from my own thinking, I do not believe that the position held by Christopher is a Libertarian position (but I may be wrong). (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —John DiRienzo

Frank Filz wrote in message <382AD2AD.1587@minds...ng.com>... (...) Frank, I think you are right. What Christopher is saying sounds a little anarchist or something, but definitely not Libertarian. -- Have fun! John The Legos you've been dreaming (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) Same thing. And just as silly. Jasper (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Jasper, stop trolling. :-) We've discussed what Libertarianism is and isn't in some depth, and you know darn well that it is not anarchy or anything like it. (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) What else would I do on sunday nights? ;) (...) The longer I think about it (and speak to some slightly more hardcore libertarians over on other places), the harder it gets for me to distinguish (hardcore) libertarianism from anarchism. The (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) (25 years ago, 18-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Scott Edward Sanburn

Sorry, I wanted to write something, decided not to, and hit the wrong button. Scott S. (...) (25 years ago, 18-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Christopher L. Weeks

Sorry, I've been gone for a week. I had to go back and read what I was talking about to address this. (...) It's much easier for you to do what you want with it that way, right? (...) Well, first, it was kind of a flippant remark, and second, no. I (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) It's also good netiquette. (...) If you come home, find someone there, and shoot him, you have shot down an innocent man and therefore deserve to be punished. That is what "innocent until proven guilty" means. (...) The US. Socialist. Please, (...) (25 years ago, 18-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Dave Schuler

(...) Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'm having trouble getting my head into the space you're describing. Let me try a different example to see if I understand your position: Suppose someone is in the process of stabbing you in the chest with the (...) (25 years ago, 18-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) ^^^^ (...) Only is the key word here. In the case I was responding to, there were other options. At least, I read it as such. Jasper (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Dave Schuler

(...) Whew! Gosh gosh gosh, I don't know. I'm afraid I'm having difficulty keeping my knee-jerk response separate from my intellectual one. What if, in the earlier example, the rape victim fought off her attacker, and in the process killed him? Who, (...) (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) Who doesn't? (...) Short answer: I dunno. That bit requires much further thought. (...) Yeah, it is. Jasper (25 years ago, 20-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

Message-Id: <slrn83cdbc.bqp.cjc@...s.utk.edu> User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) (...) Hunh? Rape ought to be a capital crime anyway, but if a rape victim, as in someone who is at that moment being raped, fights off her rapist and kills him in the (...) (25 years ago, 20-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) No, it oughtn't. That's another discussion, but it does colour my thoughts here. (...) _If_ there is any proof that there was, in fact, a rape goping on. The situation isn't what makes it gray, it's what can be made to look like the same (...) (25 years ago, 20-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Frank Filz

Jasper Janssen wrote in message <383e047e.247832761@...et.com>... (...) attacker, and (...) Please note: my discussion below is not intended to diminish the impact of rape or attempted rape on anyone. Something to ponder in thinking about rape as a (...) (25 years ago, 21-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Nope, sorry. That sounds like something you'd hear on The Practice or some other lawyer show. Rape doesn't (normally) occur as a result of miscommunication. I can't speak for everyone, but even the times when I've had what some might call (...) (25 years ago, 21-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Frank Filz

(...) I think I'll drag out an example which by your legal code I suspect I would not be able to drag out because I would be dead... Several years ago, I was driving home from Thanksgiving, and had had a frustrating drive (try losing your alternator (...) (25 years ago, 18-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Simon Robinson

(...) I'm curious. Just out of interest - don't you have anything in the States equivalent to the UK's AA or RAC? (You pay a fee - anything from about £40 ($60) per year upwards then whenever you break down anywhere, someone will come out to fix it. (...) (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Wrong. (...) Yikes! (...) In what way was that not bright? I think you behaved correctly - unless you were overly aggressive. (...) Wow, that's pretty dramatic. I've been a clerk at a gas station and we had a button that called the cops in (...) (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Sorry, I meant that as a joke. I should have included emoticons ;-) (...) Well....I disagree. But he was proven guilty. He proved it to me by raping my wife. Under your world view, what would be the appropriate response to finding yourself in (...) (25 years ago, 18-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Jasper Janssen

(...) He was proven guilty to you because you saw him. When was it that you said "I don't want to play judge, jury, and executioner"? Oh, right, four messages up. (...) I'd probably start off by grabbing a poker and trying to beat him senseless. (...) (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) If you're going to quote me, please have the decency to do so accurately. I said "I wouldn't say that anyone (or everyone) should have the right to be judge, jury, and executioner." That statement means that I do not support a system of (...) (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Jasper Janssen

(...) Sorry about that. I figured it was a fairly accurate representation of what you said. (...) I agree, absolutely. (...) True. But I'd still like to see at least an attempt made to do it via the legislated channels first - mostly because of the (...) (25 years ago, 20-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —John Neal

(...) Uh, we don't *know* that. Figures please. -John (...) (25 years ago, 20-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Well, why did you cause such a ruckus at an attendant? If the hose was leaking, and there was a problem, I would have pointed it out in a polite manner, regardless if I had a really bad day or not. I would have stopped the pump, told the (...) (25 years ago, 18-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Frank Filz

(...) Perhaps I should have clarified what I did a little better. I didn't start out to cause a ruckus, but it is hard to be totally polite when you're tired and way past ready to be home and in bed. I think I started by pointing out in a reasonably (...) (25 years ago, 18-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Jasper Janssen

(...) Pulling a bloody _gun_ on someone because you believe he may trying to cheat you out of a few dollars of gas is _not_ lawsuit material? Sheesh. And I thought you could sue for virtually anything (and epxect to win) in the US system.. ;) (...) (...) (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Frank Filz

(...) I wasn't meaning that wouldn't be lawsuit material in todays world. I was meaning it shouldn't be lawsuit material. At least in todays world of holdups etc. his actions were NOT unreasonable. He also never AIMED the gun at me (just made it (...) (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Larry Pieniazek

<38344C17.6EF@mindspring.com> <FLFAC8.B34@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (...) We don't have very many widely available plans that generous. However, we DO have a number of plans that offer (...) (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Right. Plans like Larry describes are common as dirt. (...) AAA+ will tow you up to 100 miles and costs about $90 per year. If you drive very much (I do) then it is well worth it. Even new cars can have problems. Chris (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Frank Filz

<38344C17.6EF@mindspring.com> <FLFAC8.B34@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (...) Unfortuanately at that time I didn't have AAA. Now I do. I'm not sure that they would have gotten my car fixed (...) (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Frank Filz

<38344C17.6EF@mindspring.com> <38355C1E.55A6BED2@eclipse.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) It was not a kid. No I didn't bother to do anything about it. I doubt I would have been successefull. (...) (25 years ago, 19-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —James Brown

(...) Yes. Neither you nor I are capable of judging motive. We don't know why Fred ran over Sam, or why Dave ran over Paul. The only people who know that are Fred and Dave, respectively. All that we can do is judge the action. Actions are (...) (25 years ago, 18-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Frank Filz

(...) Unfortuanately it seems to me that to have a workable society, we have to attempt to judge intent. Without judging intent, either murder is not a crime, and we can't punish anyone for being responsible for someone elses life ending, or there (...) (25 years ago, 18-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —James Brown

(...) are (...) You're making assumptions. What if the penalty for murder was deportation? Or 5 years of community service? No one says it has to be prison for life. Also, there's no reason why there can't be 'state-mandated'(1) circumstances under (...) (25 years ago, 19-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Frank Filz

(...) Ok, I was making an assumption that we want the maximum possible penalty for murder. It still means that we must treat all the above listed people the same as the person whose intent is unjustified murder. (...) Ah, but to do so, you're making (...) (25 years ago, 19-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —James Brown

(...) Hmm. I don't see that as being intent-driven, but circumstance-driven. It (to me) is a difference between "thou shalt not kill, unless you didn't mean to" and "thou shalt not kill, except under clearly defined circumstances" (...) Ok, to stick (...) (25 years ago, 19-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Jasper Janssen

(...) Cop is alone when incident happens, cop goes to jail. Cop is with more than one person who swears he saw the crime committed, cop doesn't go to jail. Cop has a partner who swears same for him, which didn't actually happen. Cop doesn't go to (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —James Brown

(...) I don't get it. If you're intending to debate, please provide reasoning to support your examples. Otherwise, please continue to troll away. James (URL) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Jasper Janssen

(...) You said your syustem was fair and provided examples. I provided counterexamples. Happy now? Jasper (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —James Brown

(...) No, I said it was *more inherently* fair. I still stand by that. (...) Yes. :) James (URL) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Christopher L. Weeks

<FJv3A6.J77@lugnet.com> <380CC30F.6FA2@mindspring.com> <FJv84y.79J@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) It appears to me that if the why behind a cop shooting someone is that a predetermined (...) (25 years ago, 21-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Jasper Janssen

(...) Explain how "stepping on the accelerator to speed up" and "driving along, without stopping" are the same. Discuss this further. Jasper (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —James Brown

(...) ?? They aren't. How is that relevant? James (URL) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Jasper Janssen

(...) ^^^...^^^ (...) ^^^...^^^ (...) So please explain how they should be punished the same, since this is what we were talking about, and there are observable differences in actions. Jasper (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —James Brown

(...) I agree with you. They shouldn't be punished the same, as their actions were different. BUT that isn't what was being talked about. The discussion was about whether judging by action or judging by intent was more fair. From the original (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)