Subject:
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Re: Motive vs Action (was Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:14:23 GMT
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Viewed:
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1048 times
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James Brown wrote:
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Frank Filz writes:
> > James Brown wrote:
> > > Neither you nor I are capable of judging motive. We don't know why Fred ran
> > > over Sam, or why Dave ran over Paul. The only people who know that are Fred
> > > and Dave, respectively. All that we can do is judge the action. Actions • are
> > > observable, and judgable, intent is not.
> >
> > Unfortuanately it seems to me that to have a workable society, we have
> > to attempt to judge intent. Without judging intent, either murder is not
> > a crime, and we can't punish anyone for being responsible for someone
> > elses life ending, or there are a lot of police, military, doctors,
> > prison guards, and just plain old citizens who have to be put away for
> > life (no death penalty anymore, since that would be murder).
>
> You're making assumptions. What if the penalty for murder was deportation?
> Or 5 years of community service? No one says it has to be prison for life.
Ok, I was making an assumption that we want the maximum possible penalty
for murder. It still means that we must treat all the above listed
people the same as the person whose intent is unjustified murder.
> Also, there's no reason why there can't be 'state-mandated'(1) circumstances
> under which murder is sanctioned/pardoned. The most obvious example is the
> death penalty.
Ah, but to do so, you're making a determination of intent, at least for
any case other than a death penalty (there you might be able to argue
that there is a real difference).
> I see no reason why judging intent is necessary to a workable society.
Please give some examples how we would deal with various "crimes"
without judging intent. Show how we can distinguish between the above
listed situations and a "criminal", or show how society doesn't need to
pardon all of the above people, or how we will prevent "crime" if the
punishments are not so extreme that we won't mind seeing all of the
above people punished also.
I don't see how it can work, but I'm open to counter examples (or
analysis of why my examples above are invalid).
--
Frank Filz
-----------------------------
Work: mailto:ffilz@us.ibm.com (business only please)
Home: mailto:ffilz@mindspring.com
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