Subject:
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Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:57:27 GMT
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Viewed:
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1030 times
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John,
John Neal wrote:
> <snippage of some pointless flames [come on, guys]>
Pointless, yes, as always, but still there. I'm used to getting crispy every now
and then, part of debate, I guess.
> This is just a random post to something Scott said, but it made me think of why I
> was a Liberal and why I'm not completely Libertarian. It has to do with stuff.
> I don't see how someone with a lot of stuff (read $$$) can live with themselves
> while there are people (with legitimate reasons) who don't have any. I *do* > think
> there is something sketchy about a bazillionaire with stuff all over the world. I
> think it's intensely selfish. And selfish people, I usually find, are sucky
> people.
I don't think it is wrong. If that's the way they want to be, that is their
right, unless the government intervenes and says it is not fair. Hence most of
the laws today. I know some rich people that are very nice and generous, and
some that are not. That's life. I know a lot of nice poor people, and some that
aren't.
> Now, I can't *make* those people have a conscience, so that they might disperse
> their fortunes to the disadvantaged. So what to do? Force them through taxes,
> etc? As a Liberal, my feeling was yes. If someone was so rich and there were so
> many so needy, why not? The needs of the many outweighed the protests of the few
> (rich). There just seems something so sick and wrong about rich people
> complaining about how overtaxed they are! "Hey jerk-off, be thankful you've got* > millions to
> pay in taxes!" is what I want to say sometimes, and even to myself as well.
Well, that's not the government's job to enforce fairness. Look at the wonders
it did in the USSR, etc. It's flawed thinking that the people who pay the most
in taxes do not deserve some of it back. Most of the government spending (around
65%) goes to social programs, and most of it 70-80% of the costs are the
bureaucracy running it. I'm mad about it, even if I am not rich, I still pay a
good chunk of taxes.
>
> Now, as a budding Libertarian, I think that no one should be able to tell others
> (by force) how to run their lives.
I would say this is rule of real conservatives, as well.
> Libertarianism works really well with
> respectful, moral, and conscienceable people. They know it's not about the stuff,
> but about people. Unfortunately, Libertarianism is defined by stuff rights, so > the
> focus is (almost) always on the stuff.
Not really. But I will let Larry take this point. I am not an expert on
Libertarian policies, but I tend to agree with most of them (Well, I agree with
99% of what Larry said, outside of the pink elephants theory, but that is
another thread beat to death!).
>
> I'm not sure what I mean to say here, but I have a feeling from where Simon is
> coming and also where Scott, Lar and the others are as well.
I understand where Simon is coming from, but I disagree with it. That's life! :)
> (Hang on, random turn
> ahead) I'm curious as to what a Libertarian thinks about the concept of the > Israeli
> Moshav. Basically, a community that produces one good to sell, and then splits the
> profits among the families.
Hey, good for them! If the government isn't involved, and they are hurting
anyone or disobeying any laws, go for it!
Scott S.
P.S. Here are some other random thoughts:
To put this in context, here is what a few of our lawmakers are saying about the
measly 1% tax cut, from the overcharging of taxes (The "surplus" of tax revenue,
the term adopted by the left wing media) that was vetoed by Bill Clinton:
"It threatens Social Security and Medicare, makes it harder to pay off the debt,
and imperils the prosperity that has brought real benefits to American
families.." -
- Bill Clinton
"It would actually threaten our environment." - Bill Clinton
"Opens huge deficits, and leaves the cupboard bare..." - Al Gore
"It's wrong for our children.." - Hillary Clinton
Man, I thought Y2K was horrible! Oh no, its the 1% tax cut!!! Were all gonna
die!!!! ;)
Food for thought.
Scott S.
--
Scott E. Sanburn
CADD Operator, CADD Systems Administrator
Affiliated Engineers, Inc. Ann Arbor, MI
Work Page:
http://www.aeieng.com/
Home Page:
http://www.geocities.com/~legoguy712/index.html
Lego Page:
http://www.geocities.com/~legoguy712/legoindex.html
“The more people I meet, the more I like my Lego collection.”
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Message has 5 Replies:
 | | Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...)
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| (...) Fairness was moist emphatically not enforced in the USSR. Marxism has never happened. (...) I wonder where you get your figures. My figures say the costs of administration of the US welfare system are about 2% of the total sum paid out. (...) (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...)
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| Last I head, from the Congressional Budget office figures, about 7 out of 8 dollars go to the administering of the programs, not the recipients, so whenever they talk about putting more money there, it is for the people running it, not the people on (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...)
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| (...) Sales tax, at least for the state (Michigan) is flat. How about a flat income tax, or a consumption tax even? Anything is better than the awful monstrosity of the Federal tax system. Scott S. "I have worked harder than I ever have in my entire (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Discussion (Was: Blue Hopper Car Mania...)
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| Christopher Lannan wrote in message ... (...) it. (...) income (...) monstrosity (...) no (...) the (...) the (...) it (...) Instead of spending our time figuring new dumb ways to tax people, I have an idea (1)... how about not taxing people? I like (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...
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| Scott Edward Sanburn wrote: <snippage of some pointless flames [come on, guys]> (...) This is just a random post to something Scott said, but it made me think of why I was a Liberal and why I'm not completely Libertarian. It has to do with stuff. I (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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