Subject:
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Re: socialism etc. (was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:19:10 GMT
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Viewed:
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1176 times
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Frank Filz wrote:
> I think I'll drag out an example which by your legal code I suspect I
> would not be able to drag out because I would be dead...
Wrong.
> [story of how an awful day was had]
> When I was almost
> home, I pulled into a service station to fill up my tank. As I was
> pumping gas, I noticed that the hose had a serious leak.
Yikes!
> I went into the building and demanded that they do something about it
> (perhaps not the brightest, but remember what I'd gone through that
In what way was that not bright? I think you behaved correctly - unless
you were overly aggressive.
> day). The clerk, I suspect in sincere belief that I was trying
> something, pulled his gun out, and said he was going to call the cops. I
Wow, that's pretty dramatic. I've been a clerk at a gas station and we
had a button that called the cops in case of emergency, but never a gun,
and that seems like an inappropriate action anyway. Did you ruin the
kid's life for it? Some gas-jocky punk pulls a gun on me and I'm going
to fully retaliate against him and the business. (I mean legally, not
by getting my even larger gun out ;-)
> said, by all means. Under your legal code, he probably would have been
> justified in shooting me (after all, he had a sincere belief that I was
> trying something funny).
I guess you mean my legal code? I'm not sure why you think that.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. If he thought you were trying
to lure him outside so you could kill and rob him, then calling the
police was reasonable. If he thought he was in immediate danger, maybe
pulling the gun was reasonable. Shooting customers because they seem a
little aggravated is definitely not reasonable.
> Fortuanately our legal code doesn't allow vigilante justice, and
Well, actually it does, but only in special cases. (Citizen's arrest,
self defense, etc.)
> (usually) punishes it when it gets out of hand, and he was willing to
> bring the police in on what was going on. I stayed in the building until
> the cop showed up to make it clear I had no intention of running.
Good idea.
> Was I being stupid - yes. Was I taking justified action - yes. The
No, yes. At least that's how it sounds to me.
> service station had a serious hazard. Unfortuanatley I don't know if
> they did anything about it. They sure didn't close the pump, even after
> I showed the clerk and the cop the leak.
I don't think your story has any bearing at all on my 'legal code' as
I've expressed it, but it was good to hear. That's just amazing.
Amazing that the station would have and ignore a leak like that and
amazing that the clerk drew on you for essentially no reason. (You
weren't coming around the counter with a base ball bat were you?)
> Of course by your legal code you would already be dead. Personally, I'd
> prefer to take the courts and all their (perceived) faults over
> vigilante justice.
When did I express that all crime (in our society) should be handled ad
hoc by the citizenry?
> I'll reserve judgement on whether systems without a government and rule
> of law can be fixed if they break until the problems in Africa, Eastern
> Europe, South East Asia, and South America get fixed. Of course most of
> those countries do have a government and rule of law, it's just who
> controls the government.
Well, that's not real rule of law then, it's rule of a person (group).
> I think the strength of the US is that we have a government which is
> (for the most part) under the control of the whole population. Sure, it
It could be seen as under no one's control. Either way, I agree with
you. I think that is a primary strength of the government. Checks and balances.
> control of "socialists" (who I don't always agree with, but they have
> some points worth listening to, even if it is only to see where
> percieved problems are, and look for non-socialist ways to fix them),
Oh me too. I am fascinated by the stance that I don't deserve my income
because I'm reliant on the infrastructure to earn it. That is a new
idea (last year or so) to me and I've been thinking on it quite a bit.
I always like to hear alternate points.
Chris
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