 | | Re: A Brave New World
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<snip> (...) That story reminds me of an old "Loony Toon" years ago with Bugs Bunny. A highway was being built and his hole was in it's path. After all was said and done (with Bugs' gorilla tactics) the highway went through. It just went around his (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) I support the process, but reserve the right to bolt if I don't like the outcome... (...) This is my problem with this proposal as well. I think you have to have basic rights that are much harder to revoke than just majority rule. I've said it (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) I asked about this before: (URL) I wanted to clarify your answer. Specifically, would you support "starting over" with new laws even if those laws ultimately conflicted (perhaps diametrically) with your own views? And, in addressing the 75% (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) I like the part about doing away with all our laws and starting over. There is a part of _Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ where the professor is lecturing the constitutional convention and he is urging them to think out of the box on government (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) So your contention is that anything and everything is great(!) if there isn't some reason that it isn't? (...) Neither. It's common sense. If you look at how war works today and consider what a war between a faction of our national government (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) Cool. Some snippage has occured during the posting process. (...) Indeed. We're stuck because we can't make up new words and the old ones are polluted. At least if you put modifiers on people ask what you mean (some of the time) instead of (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) I think I disagree, though I'd invite anyone to convince me. I think we should do away with all our laws, start over, and put everything up for straight democratic vote. And each and every law/issue would need 75% in favor in order to pass. (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) You are sure of this...why? (...) kicked (...) Animls don't have more rights than people. However, people are just beginning to take our role as stewards of this planet seriously. It would have been better if they could have identified the (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) I made it up myself. ::rant mode set at 11:: My point would be that the traditional, and especially current, uses of the words "radical," "conservative," "liberal," and etc. are so abused as to no longer make any sense at all. They have lost (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GGwMGp.62J@lugnet.com... (...) sustaining (...) I believe space colonization will grow because of the private sector, not because of something a government does. After doing a little (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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<snip> (...) is (...) and (...) the (...) must (...) to (...) stock (...) Greater concealability, better maneuverability. Nothing says "You broke into the wrong house" like .00 buckshot to the chest. -- Overkill is the only sure kill. SR (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) Fair enough. (...) Let it slide. (...) You've said this before, and it's true, there is no doubt about that. But it's not relevant unless the goal in posting is, merely by posting, to effect this change. I don't see posting that way, but (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes: <big snip> (...) No, the only ones who "deserve" a say *ARE* the ones that show up on election day. I think the rule should be changed about who can vote anyways. I think if you don't pay taxes, you (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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Number one: I am not blowing hot air. Number two: I am not confused about the electoral college. I was, however, hasty and unspecific in that post but I hope I've clarified to your satisfaction. Number three: Regardless of how detailed or unspecific (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mladen Pejic writes: <snip description of classic resource based "limits to growth" problem) (...) Indeed. (...) Indeed. Open the bottle (to use your metaphor). Or put some of your eggs in other baskets ( to use RAH's). (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) PS, what on earth makes you think I don't grasp this? Not just for handguns either, but for just about everything. (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) Why wouldn't it? (...) Are you clairvoyant or is this your self fulfilling prophecy? (...) Lovely thought. (...) As if it it would happen that way. I can be just as clairvoyant on this issue as you. Maybe government officials trying to scoop (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) It's not the system I prefer for our laws about ANYTHING, Dan, and you know it, or you would if you were paying attention. So you can skip the soapbox parts about how bad the government is, because I'm already convinced our current system is (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) Well I agree that we ought not to single out Cuba for special treatment (perhaps Nike should try to set up some factories there so that they can get the same deal China does???) but I'm not so sure I'm convinced that things are "happily (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) I'm willing to go with "really funny". But since I've had the "privilege" of riding in a taxi driven by a Cockney I know that for the accent to be even close to correct it has to be completely unintelligible to an American. (...) It's a (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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Unfortunately, there isn't any way we can live in "harmony" with mother nature. If we really wanted to preserve Earth, then we'd have to give up our current lifestyles. Yup, no more SUV's, no more fertilizer (nitrogen), no more nuclear powerplants, (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) uh...that's not what I meant. Though reading my post again, I see how you were mislead (unless of course you knew what I really and decided to simply play with me a bit). Let's see...actually, never mind. I was sort of trying to make a point (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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I understand some of the benefits that cloning technology could have. Unfortunately, I'm a bit leary (paranoid? Biased?) that the technology seems to be nearing success at the same time that population control is becoming a serious issue...the (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) Why would that be great? (...) We wouldn't have battle fields. We would have the ugliest guerilla war in history. And pistols would be awfully important because they're easier to conceal when you're approaching a small group of cops. (...) We (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) It does. I find it amusing when people react that way. (...) I think it depends on what you mean by 'well.' Our conservatives have become much more concerned with the domestic agenda than in the recent past. Bush mirrors that concern. I think (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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The point I would like you to grasp, Larry, is that laws and rights about handguns and automatic weapons are currently controlled, for the most part, by the lobbyists and politicians in Washington D.C., not by the Joes and Janes in Anytown, U.S.A. (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) Hmm. We all send 'peace keeping' forces around the world, but they usually have some degree of domestic interest involved. I was impressed with Clinton's involvement in the middle east, and his involvement in Northern Ireland (though not to (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) He didn't appear to have any particularly heartfelt national allegiance from that bio. Now, I'm fairly sure I know what you mean by 'Googling', but somehow the expression still worries me. :-)* (...) I might well do. There wasn't much (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) Kirby, It sounds from this and a subsequent response that you might be opposed to clone-related research. That's not so is it? What's to be against? Chris (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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Wow, an honest-to-gosh personal opinion that I can agree with...to bad some of the masses here are pick it apart for all it's worth... (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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Cool. While utterly disagreeing with me, you inadvertantly proved a point that I really had no idea how to make... ...foreigners ought to stay out of other nation's buisness unless they happen to be experts. I whole-heartedly agree that I have no (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) Still not being clear enough, I guess. The point you're failing to grasp is that the constitution would need to be amended before you could have a referendum that stuck. You can't just have a referendum on any old subject and have the outcome (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes: <snip> WELL SAID, froggy friend. I have one tiny point of confusion... I had always heard Jefferson, et. al., referred to as a "classical liberal" rather than a "radical conservative". I suspect (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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Hey Y'all: I am amazed at the variety of subjects y'all are willing to debate here -- everything from polyamory, to Larry and Scott, to gun control. I have taken part once or twice before, but boy! -- some of you are hard-core! This time, I'll step (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) T-H-A-N-K-S (...) Let the people speak and see where ALL of the American public stands on the issue. It will serve as evidence of what American's believe is the right thing to do. It can go either way as far as I'm concerned but let everyone (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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In my opinion, your example of wolves and sheep doesn't hold water because we are all Americans (man, woman, young, old). Our country was founded on the very personal beliefs of freedom and democracy of several "founding fathers." It has grown (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) OK, sorry if I was unclear, I'll try to spell it out more clearly. Why do you want a referendum, which would be a novel and likely to be challenged procedure, instead of the accepted way of doing it? If you are right about the level of (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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Let me give you something to think about when you say "One person, one vote." , say you have a society made up of 5 wolves and 4 sheep, and they're going to take a vote on what's for dinner. I don't think the sheep are going to like the one vote (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) Then I should have said 2 senates seats for each state and any number reps based on districts. Now, the greater point is it takes INDIVIDUALS to vote. JT noted that this isn't "mob rule" yet people, you and me, make it all happen. That is the (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) On the contrary, I think the handgun advocates would not "win." Either way, I say let the American public decide, not the lobbyists (on both sides) and not the politicians on their payroll. Dan (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) 45 seconds of Googling gave: (URL) in the UK, went to Eton and Oxford. Wrote BNW in 1931. Moved to the US in 1937. So, no, sorry, not American. BNW is no longer required reading in English schools? It's still a fresh and interesting read (and (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The position of authority (was: Handgun Death Rate)
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Could you clarify this paragraph for me, please? (...) This confused me. If the government currently is oppressive, but not bad enough to actually rebel against, why would I want to give up my arms now? I may well be working for political change, (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) Um, no, it doesn't. In fact the smallest states are guaranteed 3 votes (one rep and 2 senate seats contribute those three votes) meaning they have a proportionally larger voice in the election of the president than the large states do. As the (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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Hi jt!!! (...) And thank goodness for that! I think the process I suggested of proposing an amendment using the mechanisms in place is a better one (and more likely, BY DEFINITION, to survive a constitutional challenge). Daniel, I'm curious why you (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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Thanks for the clarification! :-) (...) If I left you with the impression that I am making that assumption, I was unclear and I apologise because I really did not intend to say that. I realise there is a risk in any journey that you may not end up (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) Nope, not me. American, was he? (...) Personally, I think this one does some good. There's serious discussion about this in the UK now, to replace the firearms of our armed police units. So long as this is still the exception rather than (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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(...) Um, no I didn't. Right now we have a system in which whoever spends the most has the better chance of being elected. The money they spend doesn't actually DO anything other than enrich PR/media organizations. (not bad in and of itself, mind (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Police shoot wrong guy
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(...) Oh, I definitely agree, but again, until the tape is viewed, it's pretty useless to comment on who did what (except that it's pretty easy to comment on the cop's bad aim). (...) Agreed. (...) Damned straight - they take the job knowing fully (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Police shoot wrong guy
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(...) policeman was justified in the (...) could feel justified, (...) or not). (...) back on a beat until he (...) For a trained police (...) It's certainly true that we don't have enough information, but if the story is reasonably true, this is a (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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Either way, I still say put it to a vote and let the American public decide. That sounds fair enough to me and I'll have no reason to complain either way since I'll know what my fellow Americans really want. Right now, I think the minority rules on (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Police shoot wrong guy
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What's to comment? Without viewing the actual tape, we don't know if the policeman was justified in the shooting (if Browne actually did not start putting the weapon down, the police could feel justified, especially if he was holding it in a (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Police shoot wrong guy
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After all the debate on handguns, when I saw this I knew I had to show you lot (URL) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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If Guns Are Outlawed, Only the Government Will Have Guns. Last year Georgia made it easier for a citizen to obtain a permit to carry a concealed weapon. The liberals in this State were absolutely enraged! Cynthia Tucker, the Editorial Page Editor of (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) It's just part of the formula suggested in the book. If intercourse has no meaning other than pleasure, then it becomes a function that fits smoothly into the utopia. Remove all emotional ties to copulations at the earliest age possible and (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Brave New World
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(...) It seems kind of contradictory to advocate tight control on the bodily functions of others and yet claim to value individual rights. Chris (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | A Brave New World
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I wonder how many people here have read Aldous Huxley's *Brave New World*. Many of the recent debates echo of things within this book: population control, sexual experimentation by young children, individual rights, ...and so on. While I am not (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) If we don't, then doesn't it seem that something more significant than a popular vote on handguns is in order? If we all agree that our congresscritters are untrustworthy, perhaps we should just throw the old system away and start anew. (...) (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) That is not how (well, actually, I suppose we _could_ make it happen that way) our constitution is changed. (...) I'd rather we just do away with all weaponry. Might as well. (...) Everyone in my neighborhood is armed. There hasn't been a (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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(...) Yes, we are a representative-democracy (re-public). But we elect our mayors, governors, congressmen, and presidents by casting our individual votes. In a presidential election each state carries a number of electoral votes consistent with the (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Anniversary of a hoax? (was Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon)
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(...) Chances are the anomalies you refer to are the ones pointed out in the Fox special awhile back-- I think they covered most of the bases, including the Van Allen radiation belts-- This link covered it pretty well, along with some pointers to (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: National vote on handguns?
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America is *NOT* a democracy, it's a republic. Laws are not made by "mob rule". jt (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Anniversary of a hoax? (was Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon)
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(...) I had never questioned it before some friends pointed out the problems - now I'm leaning more to the skeptic side. I see the biggest problem being the radiation. Could you point me to your "anomaly refutation" site? At the moment the only (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | National vote on handguns?
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It's too complicated to follow all the posts about handguns and automatic weapons, so I'll throw the following idea into the wind. Since America IS a democracy and every individual has an opinion on handguns and automatic weapons, why not put it to (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The position of authority (was: Handgun Death Rate)
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(...) The difference may be a matter of scale (The U.S. is much larger than the U.K. both in size and population -- hence we are each of us less represented, or more distanced, from our representatives esp. at the federal level) and the fact that in (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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(...) Something else. I'm not arguing agaainst clarity. I think it would be great for all concerned to clarify the constitution. But you're assuming that a process which had the task of reviewing and amending the constitution would end up with a (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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(...) No, we have a highly efficient method of dealing with that problem that involves lots of wealthy folk charging around on horses after a pack of hounds. Cruel, but I can sit back and let them have their fun. It's the ridiculous arguments that (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Couldn't resist
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(...) Well, I *AM*! -Shiri XFUT .o-t.fun (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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(...) Are you kidding? Chris (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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(...) Prisoners. Some previous prisoners. Children. many mental health patients. The homeless. People with a sloppy hand. Did I miss any? Chris (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What has happened to .space?
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(...) My mother. And hey, what's wrong with talking about me, huh Jesse? ;-) -Shiri (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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(...) So busy, Larry, you've had to post twice just to keep up! :-) I was curious about the shortening of the shotgun though. Over here the sawn-off shotgun is the stereotypical east-end small-time shop/bank/bookie's raider's (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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(...) The only point you seem to be making is that guns kill and therefore they must not be tolerated. More than once you have asked me if this is the best that I can do. I think that I have done qite well in showing other perspectives of this (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The position of authority (was: Handgun Death Rate)
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(...) Good idea. The tiny majority in your last election is similar to what kept the Tory government hanging on to power by their fingernails for a while over here. With only 40% of the vote, they still managed to keep just over 50% of the seats in (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The position of authority (was: Handgun Death Rate)
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(...) Maybe it's not a very solid argument, since I don't think any one individual is likely to fall into both camps. But, from what we see of your election campaigns it's all about who can throw the most money around, and behind the scenes offer (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Flag Burning
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(...) You drumbeater! 8^) Still, can we agree that an apparent tension between believing that someone has a right to do something and also believing that that person should LEAVE to do that something elsewhere? Dave! (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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(...) Before those with *brains* of stone pounce on Chris, and say that this is an example of his heart of stone, it's important to point out that "less bad" is a kind of better... It's not the best kind of better, mind you, but it is a kind. __Lar (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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(...) Scott is working on perfecting the Big Lie. Repeat an untruth enough times and people tend to accept it as true. (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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My goodness Scott has been busy, hasn't he? I lost count of his posts this morning. Including some real gems like "Why?" as the entire body of his reply. (...) Agreed. Scott is wrong in suggesting that they wouldn't be able to think ahead, if that's (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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My goodness Scott has been busy, hasn't he? I lost count of his posts this morning. Including some real gems like "Why?" as the entire body of his reply. (...) Agreed. Scott is wrong in suggesting that they wouldn't be able to think ahead, if that's (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Handgun Death Rate
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(...) Not at all. I am merely wondering what your point is. OTOH, I _do_ think it is better for society when a child dies (and the younger, the better) than a working adult. Society has more invested in an adult who is being productive in virtually (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Fwoosh - that's way too much to wade through. I found another site that condensed it more to the essentials. 10 states prohibit the sale of fully-automatic weapons (machine-guns) entirely. The rest may or may not have some retrictions, and (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Please note that I was specifically _not_ interested in the gun related deaths as seperate from other murders. Violent deaths is what I'm interested in, not the weapon of choice. Chris (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I don't know what their process is like, but I think that long arms must be allowed because it seems they have a plague of dangerous foxes that must be wiped out at all costs. If I understand the deal, you just can't have handguns. Chris (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) position. You're raving. The Weavers didn't hold off the agents for any real time, and at Mt.Carmel, they didn't storm the Branch Davidians because they didn't want to die. If your logic were correct, then why did they decide to assault the (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm interested in what requirments must be met before I could buy a firearm in your country. (hypothetically speaking) Let alone what I would have to do to "properly" store such a weapon. This also does not take into account the fact that the (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I forget - I think it's illegal. Or was (I noted a more up to date response on the laws a few messages back). Bruce (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Not the details, but the general idea. (...) Probably not. But I'm not sure that it is a significant difference in the context of protection of freedoms. It is certainly significant from the POV of the potential politician. (...) I just don't (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You must have a heart of stone Chris. Scott A (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) So? Chris (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I expect I am correct~ish. Child deaths are rare enough (thankfully) to normally be national news in the UK. I child that was killed buy a gun would be news without a doubt. The last one I can remember was a teenager shot as a burglar 3 or 4 (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) There are rules are regulations which must be met before a gun can be owned. 100% of those wanting to own a gun have there storage provision checked. A medical certificate is also required. Once one has a gun, I am not sure what checks are (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The police could not move in on Randy whats-his-name for weeks/months as there were children were there - that is why they held off. Likewise with Waco, if no children were there, I think the "Feds" would have moved much sooner. Just like (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Don't be shocked Larry, just read your own words: "Ignore it, interpret it in direct conflict with what the founders intended(1)?" Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Why. Because the gun lobby is too strong? Because the gun lobby pays too much money to your politicians? (...) You are a slave to your intransigent views! :) Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Oops Do you think they could conceive how powerful democracy would become. How everyone (more or less) would be able to vote? Or do you think they had events like the French revolution in mind? Scott A (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) From a UK perspective, I see nothing wrong with laws slowly changing to mirror changes in society. In the US it would be very hard to ban guns overnight. They way to remove the risk caused by guns to Joe Public is to slowly tighten access to (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Do you think they really could understand how it could work out? How modern media makes politicians almost instantly accountable? How in transparent systems, like the UK, those funding politicians would be dragged out into the open? You will (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Perhaps they are only being honest with themselves. They are far more likely to use their gun in self-defence against a perceived criminal than they are to use it against state tyranny. I expect most guns are bought in the US as a fashion (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) What is yours? (...) Oh. I see. (...) Does that make it OK? What does that have to do with your point? (...) It is still far too high in my opinion. (...) Not quite, but I will let it ride. (...) Read what Chris said. Read my reply. Think (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You can negotiate tight situations, like twisty narrow hallways better with such a weapon. Why not? Chris (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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