Subject:
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Re: Reply 6: Issues vs. Mistakes
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.color, lugnet.lego
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Date:
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Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:09:43 GMT
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Viewed:
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6116 times
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David Eaton wrote:
> Actually, is that true? At the time, was JVK in a position to reverse
> the color change? He wasn't the CEO back then. IIRC he was a vice
> president of some sort? Was he even in charge of that division of
> Lego? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking if Jorgen really WAS in
> that position.
Maybe not "was", but surely "is".
> In short, both apologies are the same. They're from the company. Not
> individuals. Jake's apology (which I don't directly recall) wasn't
> intended (I don't think) to resemble a *personal* apology, but one
> from the company. Same with Jorgen's, I imagine. Would a personal
> level apology from everyone directly involved be somehow better?
We're still not in Japan here. An excuse without remedy is of low value.
> Exactly how is Dave K not entirely correct? Is there truly any
> reaction whatsoever that could satisfy you OTHER than bringing back
> the old grays? The only other option I can think of that MIGHT satisfy
> you would be for the company to offer to replace all your OLD gray
> with NEW gray. For either fantastically cheap or for free.
Even if they would offer such a swap, if it was at all possible, I would
not want it. I - and a lot of other AFOLs - just don't _like_ the new
colours for various reasons. My reason is that they look way too cold,
metallic, and they clash horribly with other colours, primarily white.
> And they actually DID do something 'real' if you recall-- they
offered > classic colors in bulk packs. Gray, dark gray, brown brick and
plate
> packs. Although I expect this didn't satisfy you.
No, it didn't, as it didn't help the overall situation. Besides, I
filled my boxes of old grey (for the project that was in the making back
then) from PaBs, which offered a better product for me (I needed certain
kinds of bricks in _real_ quantities, and with the distibution of the
brick in the packs, I would have had to buy nearly half of the light
grey brick packs available here in Europe - but with thousands of bricks
in shapes I did not need to spare).
> They also put the new colors on the universal "never-change-again"
> list, to make sure that other colors like tan aren't changed. Is that
> immediately external?
Well, lets see how long this list holds. There is a new CEO, they still
have to cut tight corners, so it might be only a piece of paper after all.
Are you really sure that the tan we know is on the list? This is one of
the points I try to get hold of - Jakes posting of the last instace of
the list mentions a "Beige", which might be our "tan" / Lego's original
"Brick Yellow, Colour No. 5" (according to the list at peeron), but so
far nobody in that company was in a position to or did indeed confirm
this. That was one of my more important points about communication - Jan
was not in a position to confirm this when I asked him, and Jake did
not answer this question despite several people asking for clarification.
For me, this clarification is important, because I am in the early
planning stages of a MOC where I'd need a few square meters of tan -
nearly all of it in small plates - and I don't want to run into a
situation like with my last MOC - I was at about 6000 of 20000 pieces of
grey for the model when some smartass decided to scrap this colour...
> Possibly. Were they scheduling another color change for 2005 after
> they saw the results of the 1st change? Did this put a stop to it? I
> dunno. But I'll wager if it was scheduled, it stopped thanks to things
> like AFOL reaction. And that would definitely be external.
OK, this is true. I heard rumours from within the company that white
(which clashes horribly with bley) was scheduled for the block, too.
This has not happened so far.
> But really, is there something else other than bringing back the old
> colors that would satisfy you? If so, what?
Like, bringing back the old colours?
>> Well thats the way I see it. (TLC) owes (the customer).
>
> Nah. They owe us just as much as we owe them. They do something dumb?
> They pay for it financially. Not ethically.
Indeed they do. Just look at the list of signatures under Bens letter.
And they will pay for this in the future, as the brand as such has lost
a lot of credibility.
>> Shopkeepers got sets returned because parents thought that bley was a
>> packing/production mistake.
>
> Really? Now that's kind of interesting. I hadn't heard that before,
> but I thought it might happen in extremely isolated incidents. Was
> this something that store owners reported, or is this from customers
> who returned items? Any idea how much we're talking about?
Well, these two talks with store owners were quite early last year,
shortly after the change became public, and there were two instances at
one shop, and one at another. But - as I said - this was at the very
beginning of the whole mess. Currently, too many shopkeepers react
slightly hostile if you mention TLC, so I don't discuss their problems
with Lego anymore.
>> This is a matter of perspective. I do not care much for "civil",
>> actually. I consider "rational" to be more important.
>
> Noble, but dangerous. Emotions easily get in the way for many people.
> They often cloud the issue. If by being civil you are able to acheive
> the same results, I see no reason not to be so, short of attempting to
> humiliate.
The more icing on the cake, the less you'll be able to see the cake
itself. I try not to drown information in words (like politicians do).
Yours, Christian
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Message has 4 Replies:
 | | Re: Reply 6: Issues vs. Mistakes
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| In lugnet.color, Christian Treczoks wrote: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) For me, you've just lost your credibility. You're saying one thing in one post--'it's all about the communication--if they just said they're sorry but they can't change it now due (...) (20 years ago, 17-Mar-05, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego)
| | | Re: Reply 6: Issues vs. Mistakes
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| (...) I'm keeping out of the color discussions, but I can answer this one. The 'Beige' on the list IS what we know as Tan. At LEGO, this color is known both as 'Brick Yellow' and also 'Beige' - color number 05 on the LEGO color chip pallette. Quite (...) (20 years ago, 17-Mar-05, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego)
| | | Re: Reply 6: Issues vs. Mistakes
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| (...) I don't get it. How has the situation changed since Jake stated that the company wouldn't be switching back? We knew (unless Jake was flat-out-lying, which I seriously doubt was happening) that the people responsible for the color change, and (...) (20 years ago, 17-Mar-05, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego)
| | | Re: Reply 6: Issues vs. Mistakes
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| (...) That would indeed be very useful. I was among several people in the (URL) original> Universal Color thread asking for clarification of the list, which to my knowledge, has not yet been forthcoming. Marc Nelson Jr. (URL) Marc's Creations>> (20 years ago, 18-Mar-05, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Reply 6: Issues vs. Mistakes
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| (...) Actually, is that true? At the time, was JVK in a position to reverse the color change? He wasn't the CEO back then. IIRC he was a vice president of some sort? Was he even in charge of that division of Lego? I honestly don't know, I'm just (...) (20 years ago, 15-Mar-05, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego)
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