 | | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Oh I so agree with you. Parents... sex... Ick!!! Dave K (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The quest for knowledge will just dissipate when we get there? A fundamental human significance--the pursuit of learning--will promptly poof when all that science can teach us is known? Yes it is a Good Thing (tm). I have said so before, and I (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Kadinsky? Anyway, read Dr. Betty Edwards "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" (I believe there is a new edition "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain"). She uses numerous techniques for teaching drawing that in fact had been (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) <snip> < Admittedly, (...) It seems to be a fundemental flaw in human nature that the type of personality required to reach a position of power is exactly the type of personality that you do not want that person to have Lester (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I would be inclined to rephrase that as "So many people in positions of power use that power to..." I don't think that Christians, professed or otherwise are alone in abusing positions of power to set their world view on people; the Taliban (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) During my teen years there would have been no greater incentive NOT to have sex than to have to watch my parents going at it. Dave! (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) If every christian really believed this, and acted in accordance with it, I'd have no beef with christians and christianity. But they don't. So many professed christians in positions of power use that power to enforce their morals on others (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) This reminds me of that old George Carlin skit, when he related the story of him and his buddies trying to trip up their Padre, 'Um Fathah, if we missed holy communion, but we were on an airplane and crossed the international dateline, but we (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Anything in the physical world can be investigated by the scientific method. Art maybe made of physical properties such as clay, rock, dyes(paint) on canvas, whatever. However, most artists say they were 'inspired', whether by a muse or (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Except those passed from mother to child, like HIV, right? And those with other transmision vectors right? And anyway, let's imagine that everyone on earth got an authoritative bill of health and a list of their transmissible infections was (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I dunno about you but I'd prefer something a little better than 60-70% accurate! (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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This is too long so I'm snipping at will. I have taken great pains to make sure nothing is responded too out of context. (...) What when? Accepting for the moment, that the universe is actually finite, so what? So if we manage to hang on until we (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) And far too much that's not addressed, such as: What if my neighbor's wife covets me? What if I covet my neighbor's daughter? What if I covet my own daughter? What if I covet my sister? What if I covet my neighbor? What if the only way to keep (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) OK David, I wasn't trying to wriggle away from your point. And maybe I'm just slow, but I really don't get the impeccable logic that you're presenting. Let's focus on this one really small idea for a bit. What is it that to your way of (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Hmm, I don't think so. My understanding is that most of the "harm" modern Wiccan philosophy means to address is emotional and spiritual in nature, rather than physical, although I'll admit that I haven't made an in-depth study of it. (...) (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Well, I think you are stressing the word "harm" a bit here. Everyone knows it takes two to tango, but only one to stop the dance. Them's the breaks... I'll take this opportunity to quote Mr. Crowley: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Just because you say it is don't make the buttercups shine. I know what I said and I stand by it. I am on *record* of supporting same sex marriages. I don't care if you want a harem--gov't should *not* legislate morality. I know loving and (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) I already said there are "no other stakeholders". If one of the participants has an STD, there are other stakeholders. Nice try though. (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) This is *not* a discussion on the merits of science. I have stated time and time again that I *love* science and what it does (for the most bit--velcro--too much noise!) One side of this discussion esteems science to be the *only* factor for (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) ...except in a very esotaric sense that taking action to prevent harmful diseases is life-affirming. <GD&R> :) James (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Not a moral reason not to... (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I don't mind your points at all--I like them just fine, and I think I responded to them. The way I saw it, though, was twisting the original intent of the message, which is the bible does not deny physical pleasure and it does not separate the (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Yaay, another Larritarian! I expect a love offering from you, acolyte. Took you long enough though. (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Stunningly easy: "Jane" and "Joe" are in a relationship that is no longer working out. Staying together is causing a fair degree of pain and stress for them; seperating will also couse a fair degree of pain and stress. Neither action has the (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) <snipped the first chunk, becuase we're starting to argue in circles> (...) Not quite what I was saying; I should have been more specific. It is often necessary to the healing process for someone who has been in an abusive relationship to (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Can you come up with an example that isn't wildly contrived or overly concerned with the fate of bacteria or ants? -- Hop-Frog (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Let's face it -- that's exactly what this is, despite your denial. If diseases cannot succeed in one way, they will do so in another way. Or put another way: the diseases whose transmissal routes are frustrated will die; but the diseases whose (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) I think you just dodged the question here-- unless you're insinuating that science should dictate our morals? IE that *because* we can eliminate STD's if we stick to having one partner, that it's morally good? But back to the point. Let's (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) "Fergus spake these words and he said, This shall be my Creed, whereby shall I live my life as it were a shining example of Virtue and Excellence, well worthy to be enshrined in Heaven as a model for all who are to follow. My Creed shall into (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Same philosophy, different expression. Your version has the same inherent flaw: I do not want others to leave me alone, therefore I will not leave others alone. ;p Just about any pat rendering of morality or social expression will have a flaw (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Apparently without a 2nd thought, sadly :( It still rather catches me by suprise that the 1st instinct isn't "Oh! We might be wrong!" but is instead "Oh! We must have misinterpreted!". The justification, BTW, is just that: 'Our former (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I have a problem with this form of the Golden Rule -- it's in the form of an exhortation to some kind of action. I prefer "Do not unto others as you would have others not do unto you." Point being: I want to be left alone. The form you have (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Forgetting authority, forget the laws of the land and forget the laws of the bible nad foget that I'm a Christian and that you're, well, not... Thank you for making my point so crystal clear. (and the following point does *not* make Christians (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Feed him beans and cabbage...oh, sorry, not that type of wind. I'll just be moving along, then.... (...) I have a dog with no nose. How does he smell? Terrible! (rimshot) (...) It is possible that time is an illusion, or that the universe (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Name one. I'm not saying that there isn't one, I just think you need to establish that with a bit more certainity than you present. And yes, I'm actually asking for some supporting evidence, not just a name. :-) Bruce (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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I thought we might agree on something fundamental from the way you were talking. Alas... (...) I agree. (...) It does have to do with the pleasure of the flesh and the pleasure of the spirit. I'm not twisting or making irrelevant points. And I think (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: christian morals are inferior to tolerant morals
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(...) It wouldn't. (at least absent more particulars anyway...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) And I think my point, reiterated, is that Chris twisted it into saying the Mosaic law says you cannot derive pleasure from living, which is far from the truth. Nowhere in the testaments does this concept even exist. I am not a biblical scholar (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) See my previous point that falsifiable theories that are proven false have no explanatory scientific value. This is the case with biblical creation. The "day-lengths" thing--to which you correctly refer as disproven--was by the way a classic (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) covet (...) nail (...) too? (...) Pishtosh. If all involved have no problem with it, then there is nothing immoral about it. Marriage is what you make of it, not some hard-coded morality. (...) While I do believe somewhat in moral absolutes, I (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Again, a finite concept--Every hair on your head is numbered, every grain of sand, every molecule, He knows--do you get the idea that He is infinite yet? If it were *our* universe, and as finite beings, sure we would have to script it, but, (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: christian morals are inferior to tolerant morals
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(...) "Larry's morals and David's are equivalently good within your separate personal contexts." :) (...) Interesting note, though. In this particular case, you *haven't* judged David's theoretical person who *wouldn't*, whereas David has actually (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I agree. I would further ask John how he would demonstrate to someone permanently locked indoors that wind exists. (...) I had salmon last night--it tasted great and smelled great. Does that help? 8^) (...) For those playing along at home, (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | christian morals are inferior to tolerant morals
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(...) Why not? You'll have to present an argument other than "from authority" to convince me differently. Assuming we've named all the stakeholders, and they're all consenting adults who actually consented (posit this for the sake of the argument, (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I think Chris's point is that this is an absolute of Mosaic Law that goes against the "experiencing joy, love, happiness, sensualness, whatever" that was suggested as all ok in your comments. I'm certain that you didn't intend the "where-ever (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) I'll still argue that Biblical Creationism is falsifiable-- it's just that CreationISTS tend to either bend with the evidence, or refuse it. If, for example, we were able to "prove" that humans preceeded the Earth, out goes Biblical (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Here's a thought--with freedom comes responsibility. Stop twisting and making irrelevant points--that point you made has nothing to do with my idea, which is the non-separation of body and soul. Nowhere in the 10 commandments does it command (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) There is a great reason to accept that God didn't create the universe; we have no evidence that he did. We have evidence that the universe is here, and we have evidence that it began (in its current incarnation) some 15 billion years ago. But (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I have to admit, this is a remarkably funny subject, because the definition is so flexible, yet each flavor is convinced of its particular correctness (read rigidity). I once had a conversation with a Christian wherein they asked me something (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) OK, so when Moses (or God, depending on what you believe) tells us not to covet the neighbor's wife, what do you believe you shouldn't do? Is it a sin to nail your neighbor's wife? What if she wants you to? What if her husband does too? There (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) have (...) Right. (...) Uh, no. Is it really your assertion that Jehova is personally seeing to it that every electron tunnels just so? Man, what a bore. He ought to code the universe so that scripts take care of such things. (...) Well, that (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | inconsequential creator
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(...) No valid reason not to accept that the universe was created rather than always existed or spontaneously appeared... AS LONG AS that creator has had no other effect. As soon as you claim the creator has had other effects which are apparent or (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) No, you can't by definition inquire about the starting point of a starting point. (...) To what degree? A "larger" leap of faith? Nothing what we are talking about is "logical" We are talking about something out of nothing. We don't have any (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) "Only way?!?!" Aren't we talking about Big-G God here? The "only way" an infinite being can do something is however it wants to! And if that's not the case, then I can think of something greater than "a God who can't do things any way He (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Again, I've been basing my argument on the notion of the Xtian interpretation of Genesis re: infinite Creator. All bets are off once an infinite entity steps into the equation, so my objection stands. This is also, by the way, why studies into (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes: <snip> (...) Not only is my grammar atrocious, but my spelling as well. Sorry 'bout that--firstly no spell check via web interface, and secondly, I think, I type, and mostly don't bother to re-read. (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) In complement to Tom's very correct points I would add that the claim "God always existed but the universe couldn't have always existed" is the falacy of special pleading, which states "for my theory I allow extraordinary circumstances but for (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I have stated many times that *my* form of Christianity takes the form of leaving you to run your life the way you want as long as you reciprocate. It's the phrasing 'wacko Xtian' (and related spelling and ideas) which kinda started this whole (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) You are defining an incorrect starting point then. Who/what created the Creator? A correct starting point for the Creator view would be when/how the Creator came to be. Otherwise, you are STILL left with the question of "how did it all begin"? (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) No evidence to support the existance of God? THe sustaining of all physical properties is not enough? Sure science can say, 'Oh, these pieces over here are made of these molecules, and these molecules are made of these atoms, and these atoms (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I really didn't mean for it to be funny. It just seems like how this kind of faith is generally built. What else would explain it? Even those born-again seem to be the result of a different kind of indoctrination. (...) One difference is that (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Actually, He already did that, if one accepts the notion of original sin. The predisposition to sin (ie, an inherent tendency toward evil) is hardly a tabula rosa for free will. If God has inflicted upon us (or allowed to be inflicted) a (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Well the answer is very simple: Someone provide us with a detailed delineation of what "proper" Xtianity is, and then we'll all know what we're talking about. But it seems positively mad for one particular Xtian to pound the pulpit about the (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) The only comment I'll make here is that the soul is generally defined to be a part of humanity which *can* be separated from the body at death, so I think this is not a logical assumption. But I see no reason why things that make the flesh (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I have to admit I almost snorted milk out my nose reading this "deep programming" and "childhood trauma" bit. Too much! =) But, if I may say so, it is no more obnoxious to express derision or condescension for John's views than it is for him (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) idea (...) from (...) The existence of a creator, to me, implies that he's still hanging around. Since there is no evidence to support that, and it seems like there would have to be if He were really there, I choose to go with spontaneous (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Okay, that's interesting to me that you would acknowledge a resistance the idea of the existence of a Creator. Taken all the way to the beginning, one needs to agree on *some* starting point. Either you believe it all just started from (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Well, I am not the one claiming to be a messenger of something that no one wants to hear about in debate. John is claiming such a thing, in addition to all other kinds of rights to judge others via morals, politics, what have you...maybe not (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) evidence (...) I want to start by acknowledging a significant resistance to the idea that an ultimate creator exists at all. That would certainly color my acceptance of evidence. I'm only saying this so that you don't feel the need to point it (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) <huge honkin' snip> I really have no particular desire to get into what seems to be a private battle here, but calling John out for his beliefs and saying he isn't a Christian because he doesn't follow a strictly biblical teaching isn't (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) They also mummify the pope. I'm not sure if this is a belief that he will come back in another life but it is clearly descendent from pharoh rituals. Unfortunatly the messed up the last one pretty bad ;-) cheers, Joseph (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) (Not only the English speaking world - the Atlantic Coast of mainland Europe still retains lots of celtic traditions, many of which later influenced local christian communities :-) (...) True indeed. In fact, I believe that the Papacy has in (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Absolutely to all that. I mention the the Celtic (Druidic) traditions because they are the ones that permeate the English speaking world. Praying to Saints for intervention is little removed from Roman ancestor worship that were elevated to (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Not only "celtics" have criptic-pagan traditions (if the term can be used). If you look at the way that catholic mediterranean cultures revere the many saints, you may find it as a late expression of roman polytheism... For instance, the (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Read "The Winter Solstice" by John Matthews. Christian and pagan traditions have merged, often to the displeasure of the Christian Powers That Were At The Time. Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but then my great-grandmother left out (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I really have no idea what John Neal believes or why he believes it. I know he claims to be a Xtian -- but I see precious little evidence that he either reads, understands, or follows the words of Jesus (in the future, it is my intention to (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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I see. You've proved yet again you are a stubborn, knee-jerk Bible-thumper. Instead of gathering data to prove Richard's assertions wrong, you just launch into whacko ranting in an attempt to discredit HIM rather than his data. If you want to prove (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Well, I guess that's it. I may as well admit it-- I am a pagan, and I didn't even know it! And all of Christianity turns out to be a farce! Who knew? Richard did. Richard, that faith-crushin', intellectual GIANT knew it all along. With one (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) *Some?* 4 posts ago I gave you gold about this subject and this is your half- witted reply? Xmas and Easter ARE pagan holidays, often practiced with a Xtian veneer. That's it, there is no more. (...) Okay, so if I now asserted as a fact that (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Okay, I may have jumped the gun here. Would you provide an example of evidence (hypothetically speaking if necessary) which would lead you to believe in the existence of a God? -John (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) I think the issue here was my interpretation of your specific problem with Creationism wherein you said: (...) The issue I was attempting to discuss here (if you trace back) is with the 2nd item in your list: "does not make any predictions (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) No, scenario 1 has 1 element: the Creator. The Creator is alone until the creator creates something from literary nothing. The creator and the kernal are the same thing-- the beginning point. -John (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Okay, so you are saying that some Christians incorporate pagan traditions into their celebrations of Christmas and Easter. (...) That may be. As far as Christmas trees go, I think what has happened is that traditions have been borrowed and (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Are you asking if post hoc reasoning is scientific? No--it's actually one of the hallmarks of pseudoscience, like palmistry or astrology or Creationism. (...) For the umpteenth time in this debate you have presented the falacy known as "the (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I'd say you're accurate-- both statements are (AFIAK) equally valid. Which is precicely why "science" says neither of them, but instead says "I dunno, I won't commit to either option" DaveE (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Are you referencing the "faith" that I place in my ability to observe? Or something more? (...) Like what? (...) I have not personally discovered a method of inquiry that stands up to scrutiny as well as science does. So what do you mean? (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) No, not actually. Scenario 1: a creator and the kernel of the universe (2 elements) Scenario 2: the kernel of the universe itself (1 element) All things being otherwise equal, I would tend to choose the scenario with the fewest assertions. The (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Now here's the statement--faith-based reasoning... Now if you said specifically you reject Christian (or insert whatever deist religion here) faith-based beliefs, that's something I'd not have a problem with, 'cause there's also Scientific (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) You are completely missing or intentionally avoiding the fact that many Xtians practice Xmas and Easter in a manner that precisely involves appropriations of pagan rites -- and not just the dates. You take lengthy arguments, skip over (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) A "fairer" assessment would be that, regarding issues which we cannot verify even in principle, science makes no statement. Similarly, some people (myself included) might say that, since we have no basis for making a determination, it is (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Question is, is it still "scientific"? I'd still want to say yes. (...) Alright, fine. Switch the example then (we can play this game for a while yet to come). Suppose we *don't* know the chemical makeup of Halley's Comet, because it gets (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I didn't say anything about science. Science is not the lone venue for evidence. Law, for instance, depends on evidence. In fact, I'd say that all plausibly reasoned decision making proceses have a role for evidence. Chris (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) No, it's a personal choice. It is also a rejection of faith-based beliefs. What exactly is wrong with you, John? -- Hop-Frog (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Am I *that* transparent? :-) So regarding events prior to the Big Bang, all we have are opinions which may or may not be based upon religion. To say that a Creator started it all or to say that it all just happened are equally neutral. Would (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) But Chris, if nothing else, I think we all have ageed that science cannot speak to such matters, so your requiring evidence to support a belief in God is flawed reasoning. -John (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Know Thy Python (was: Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism)
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(...) If, for no other reason, you have to respect a man who knows his Python.... <okay, I just cracked *myself* up with that one!> -John (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) *CRASH*!!! Nobody expects the Taxonomic Scale Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise. Surprise and anal retentiveness.....oo...ooo....two chief weapons are surprise, anal retentiveness, and a ruthless devotion to splitting scales....three! (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) In an arena of two competing theories, the one that is able to make testable predictions is stronger than and therefore preferable to the one that is not so able. If the theory does not make testable predictions, you can't really perform (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) those times of year. The shortest day of the year and the equinox are natural times for celebrations. Early Christians may have decided to celebrate the coming of their savior at the same time as pagans were celebrating whatever they (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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