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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
>
> > What makes the body happy in turn, I think, would also make the soul happy,
> > and vice versa. Christianity is not about denying the body in favour of the
> > soul. Whoever is spouting that brand of whatever hasn't understood the
> > simple and undeniable idea that God created the body, with all it's ability
> > to experience pleasure. Where's the problem in experienceing joy, love,
> > happiness, sensualness, whatever. Where in my Bible does it say to deny
> > these things?
>
> OK, so when Moses (or God, depending on what you believe) tells us not to covet
> the neighbor's wife, what do you believe you shouldn't do? Is it a sin to nail
> your neighbor's wife? What if she wants you to? What if her husband does too?
>
> There seems to be no lee-way in the commandments.
>
> Chris
Here's a thought--with freedom comes responsibility.
Stop twisting and making irrelevant points--that point you made has nothing
to do with my idea, which is the non-separation of body and soul. Nowhere
in the 10 commandments does it command 'Thou shalt not derive physical
pleasure'. What they do say is to do things in a responsible manner, or
that which could be summed up into a golden rule 'do unto others...'
Nailing your neighbours wife is not morally right, even if you, your
neighbours wife and your neighbours wife's husband think it's okay.
You, however, can nail your own wife, and both of you can derive physical
pleasure from it, and you'd both be okay in God's eyes. Your souls would
probably also benefit from a good and healthy sex life, but again, that's
the point.
There are moral absolutes, no matter what post modernity tells us. If you
wanna discuss that, it's a whole different topic.
You may sa there's no leeway in the speed limit either. If it's 100 km/h
then that's what it is--but wait--my goodness, look at that, you can go
*any* speed between 0 and 100--that's like... ummm... at least 100 integer
choices and an infinite number of choices if we get away from those pesky
integers. That's alotta choices for our free will to do with as we please.
But if you go 101 km/h, or 100.00000001 km/h, guess what?--you're breaking
the law. So how 'bout living within it, it just might be good for you.
Somebody somewhere had a thought that placing limits on things would be good
for you. Sure, like a 5 year old trying to test the limits, we rail and
rally against the imposed limits, but go ahead and touch the stove when it's
hot, even tho we told you not to. Where'd it get you? There are so many
possibilities and ways to live within Gods law and remain healthy and happy
and derive physical, emotonal, intellectual and spiritual joy, and do as we
want.
(this little post isn't a 'all laws are good' post--if a man made law is
unjust or needs changing, then go ahead and change it. Now show me where
*not* following any of the 10 commandments would be better for you (over the
course of your life, to battle against the 'well, nailing my neighbours wife
certainly "feels" better right when i'm doing it) than following them)
Dave K
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Message has 5 Replies:
 | | Re: slight
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| (...) I think Chris's point is that this is an absolute of Mosaic Law that goes against the "experiencing joy, love, happiness, sensualness, whatever" that was suggested as all ok in your comments. I'm certain that you didn't intend the "where-ever (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | christian morals are inferior to tolerant morals
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| (...) Why not? You'll have to present an argument other than "from authority" to convince me differently. Assuming we've named all the stakeholders, and they're all consenting adults who actually consented (posit this for the sake of the argument, (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: slight
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| (...) covet (...) nail (...) too? (...) Pishtosh. If all involved have no problem with it, then there is nothing immoral about it. Marriage is what you make of it, not some hard-coded morality. (...) While I do believe somewhat in moral absolutes, I (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: slight
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| I thought we might agree on something fundamental from the way you were talking. Alas... (...) I agree. (...) It does have to do with the pleasure of the flesh and the pleasure of the spirit. I'm not twisting or making irrelevant points. And I think (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: slight
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| (...) Name one. I'm not saying that there isn't one, I just think you need to establish that with a bit more certainity than you present. And yes, I'm actually asking for some supporting evidence, not just a name. :-) Bruce (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: slight
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| (...) OK, so when Moses (or God, depending on what you believe) tells us not to covet the neighbor's wife, what do you believe you shouldn't do? Is it a sin to nail your neighbor's wife? What if she wants you to? What if her husband does too? There (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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