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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Thomas Stangl writes:
> John wrote:
> > Okay, that's interesting to me that you would acknowledge a resistance the
> > idea of the existence of a Creator. Taken all the way to the beginning, one
> > needs to agree on *some* starting point. Either you believe it all just
> > started from nothing, or a Creator (whose origin is inexplicable) started it
> > all. Seems to me that both require the same leap of faith, and are equal.
> > You just choose; neither one is any more plausible than the other. Both by
> > definition are the starting point to me.
>
> You are defining an incorrect starting point then.
>
> Who/what created the Creator?
>
> A correct starting point for the Creator view would be when/how the Creator
> came to be. Otherwise, you are STILL left with the question of "how did it
> all begin"?
>
> IOW, your starting point requires a larger leap of faith than a non-Creator
> view, which is why some of us don't find it as logical as you do.
In complement to Tom's very correct points I would add that the claim "God
always existed but the universe couldn't have always existed" is the falacy
of special pleading, which states "for my theory I allow extraordinary
circumstances but for your theory I do not." It's simply a double standard
applied in a very specific way.
I would also add that John's post requires a false dilemma; "either the
universe began at some point from nothing, or the Creator (who always
existed) created the universe." This presupposes that there are only two
options, when in fact there is at least one other: the universe, in some
fashion, has always existed.
Dave!
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: slight
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| (...) No, you can't by definition inquire about the starting point of a starting point. (...) To what degree? A "larger" leap of faith? Nothing what we are talking about is "logical" We are talking about something out of nothing. We don't have any (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: slight
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| (...) You are defining an incorrect starting point then. Who/what created the Creator? A correct starting point for the Creator view would be when/how the Creator came to be. Otherwise, you are STILL left with the question of "how did it all begin"? (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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