Subject:
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Re: CFD: e-bay (aka ranting and raving)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 10 Feb 1999 04:15:06 GMT
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Viewed:
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526 times
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<snip>
> On about 2/3 of the auctions I've participated in, or followed, there has been
> a similar flow to the bids. Several people bid on it in the first day or so
> (sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on how popular it is), it reaches a
> fairly reasonable price, and sits there, uncontested, until 4-6 hours before
I'd say more than 2/3. Almost all of the auctions I've been in as a
buyer and a seller follow this pattern.
> cases, the last few minutes. This sometimes pushes the price beyond
> reasonable(2), but more often, the 'high bidder' is over-turned on his high bid
> by the absolute minimum necessary, before they have a chance to react. One
Remember that in a proxy bidding system such as eBay, the highest bid
is defined as "just a little more" than the second highest bid. All
winning bids are like this, unless it's a dutch auction format. I just
saw a rather humorous (in a sick way, I guess) example on R.T.L. where
two eBay bidders just assumed that they were going to be the highest
bidders no matter what, and they accidentaly pushed themselves to
something like three times the value of what they wanted to buy.
Remember also that (for eBay), if you look at the bidding list after an
auction is complete, the highest bid is truncated to fit this "proxy"
system. If all it took was $51 to win, and the highest bidder went $75,
it will still show as $51.
> I can understand, from e-bay's point of view, why they run it like this, but
> (to be blunt) why would anyone use it? As far as I can tell, the only
> advantage to using e-bay, either as a buyer, or a seller, is the exposure. (for
> sellers, a greater market, for buyers, greater diversity)
That "only", for many sellers and buyers, is indeed the sole reason to
use eBay (and other online auction services). Unparalleled exposure.
> As a buyer, I have been frustrated on more than one occaision, by the bidding
> practises described above, while refusing to sink to the same level (3), and I
OOOoooohohohhhohhhh <Mr. Burns shiver imitation> I'll rant and rave
about this "issue" momentarily. :)
> just can't see the point as a seller. If you're not in it for the best profit,
> odds are you aren't trying to sell it over the internet(4), and e-bay doesn't
It depends on the product. Some things sell too high, others too low,
even within a category. Used computer gear usually sells for too high,
while new low-end gear is just unbelieveably cheap, like half retail.
> give you the best chance for profit - a once, twice, sold format does that.
Only because there's no time limit. FirstAuction combines the two
formats for maximum profitability, by extending the auction for five
minutes when a bid is placed within the last five minutes of an auction.
Why eBay hasn't instituted this (among other things), I haven't a clue.
> As to the exposure, you're not going to catch very many AFOL's that aren't
> aware of RTL & Lugnet - if you're net-aware and an AFOL, they're both pretty
> hard to not notice - so why not just advertise there?
"AFOL"? New term for me--it means...? As a seller, half of my buyers
have been RTLers and/or Lugnuts. The other half has never heard of them,
and don't have even the little techinal know-how to figure out how to
access either one. People who use WebTV (and that level of user is the
fastest growing segment of the Internet userbase) aren't likely to even
know what a "newsgroup" is.
> know, why don't we set up a service on the internet to do something people are
> fully capable of doing themselves, if they bother to work a little? We can
> charge people a fee of some kind to use our service, we'll design it in such a
> way that it always seems like a bargain, but it will really just add an
> unnecessary layer into transactions where we can skim a small amount, and make
Bother to work "a little"? For the kind of exposure that eBay has? I
dispute that. The Internet is the largest medium ever developed for
large-scale sellers and small-time buyers. Paying a 1-2% fee for the
priviledge to access that is something I'll do ten times out of ten, if
it saves me 50% on computer hardware, helps me find lego pieces I've
been searching for for two years, and thrills my buyers with sets they
haven't been able to nab yet. Yes, I agree that there are a lot of
things that could technically (meaning less cost and more efficiency) be
done better than eBay and other online auctions are doing now. But
they're minor compared to the massive exposure that benefits the buyers
and sellers.
> All e-bay does (especially in the Lego community) is add an extra layer where
> an outsider pulls money out, and provide an interface for speculators to get at
I don't consider 2% to be much money to be pulled out, especially when
most bidders are willing to top their bids at the last minute by more
than 2%. Which brings me to my ranting and raving for the evening (hey,
no wisecracks about having already done so :)
I simply do not understand why people get upset at being outbid at the
last minute. This is a *proxy* bidding system. I put in the maximum that
I'm willing to pay. If I bid $50, and get upset about being outbid at
$51, then $50 wasn't really the maximum I was willing to pay. "But of
course I'd be willing to go a little more if it means digging up some
change out of the couch!". What, and the other guy wouldn't? Those two
people I mentioned earlier must have thought they had $2000 worth of
change in their couch. :) The reason "sniping" has become such an issue
on online auction services is because most bidders are looking to pay
the least amount they can, when that's not the way auctions work for any
online or real-life formats. Bidders aren't honest with themselves about
what they're willing to pay. If I bid $50 at the beginning of an
auction, and at the last minute someone jumps in with $50.01 (and this
has happened to me), more power to 'em. That's one cent more than I
would have honestly been willing to pay. If I was going to quibble over
couch change (or much more), I should have made that part of my original
bid.
<whew!> I feel better. Thanks for the opportunity to do that--I've been
itching to talk about that for awhile. No personal offense meant to
anyone, of course. I just get frustrated with this misconception about
how online auctions work. Now, I know that flame suit is around here
somewhere...<huge muppet crash/frying-pans-down-the-stairs sound as Adam
opens his E-closet>.
Adam
bwappo@ee.net
> 2: reasonable being entirely subjective, of course, but I'm basing my idea of
> reasonable on RTL and Lugnet auctions whenever possible
>
> 3: maybe that's my problem: too @#$@# moral for my own good. :)
>
> 4: feel free to flame - it'll give me an excuse to justify my off-hand comment
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: CFD: e-bay (aka ranting and raving)
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| (...) I've been lurking on this thread but I have to jump in here. (...) It's very simple: Because people don't know what they're willing to pay. They think they're mad at the other bidder, but what they're actually mad at (without usually knowing (...) (26 years ago, 10-Feb-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: CFD: e-bay (aka ranting and raving)
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| (...) been (...) a (...) bid (...) I know that. My point was two-fold. One was that the system encouraged waiting until the last minute to knock the other bidder out, instead of allowing him time to reconsider his 'proxy' - as in the example I (...) (26 years ago, 10-Feb-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: CFD: e-bay (aka ranting and raving)
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| (...) Something to think about: even with proxy bidding, you will, over time, get lower totals on winning-bids in eBay auctions if you do not bid until the last second. Why? - Proxy bidding isn't perfect. - Not everyone uses proxy bidding properly. (...) (26 years ago, 11-Feb-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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