Subject:
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Re: CFD: e-bay (aka ranting and raving)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:46:58 GMT
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Viewed:
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606 times
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Adam Yulish writes:
> <snipped a lot of stuff that has already reached conclusion>
<more snipping>
> > The fourth factor that raises prices on e-bay is the 'minimum bid' trick.
> > The thought that $21.00 isn't that much more than $20.50 isn't that much
> > more than $20 isn't that much...etc. is very seductive, and pulls (I would
> > hazard a guess) about 95% of what e-bay sells to a couple of bucks higher,
> > every time.
> > This doesn't make a big difference to the individuals involved, but I
> > certainly imagine that it adds up to a lot of money for e-bay.
>
> Agreed, though I don't think this to be a negative thing. If there were
> no minimum increment, and people were allowed to quibble over pennies,
> they certainly would. Better to have a minimum increment to reduce the
> quibbling, for the same reason all auctions have minimum increments.
Oh, I'm not arguing against the minimum incriment! My point is that its a very
seductive trap that e-bay uses (and most auctions, to be fair) to get more
money out of the marks. Most people, everytime they're outbid, they think
"only 1 more dollar", and either consciously or unconsciously edit out the
price the lot has already reached, which tends to pull the price they are
paying beyond what they are (were) willing to pay.
> > Running things through e-bay for that extra shred of profit is detrimental,
> > because its unlikely to make a huge difference for any one auctioneer (your
> > BSB might get 20 more bucks, whoopie. In the long run, that's diddly
>
> In the long run, it adds up. 5-10% is diddly, I agree. 20% and above
> for the lego I sell means "buy (at most) five, get 1 free" with what
> I've earned, in relation to RTL/Lugnet. Combine that with the minimal
> effort involved in running an auction on eBay, and to me, that's
> significant.
>
> > it pulls money out of the AFOL community - how much of that 20 bucks goes to
> > e-bay for listing fees and percentage of high bid?
>
> Pulls money out? Whether I buy and sell lego on eBay or RTL/Lugnet,
> that does not change my AFOL status. Someone argued a couple of months
> back that while commerce isn't the main point of RTL/Lugnet, it does
> facilitate the life of them. I think that's true, but I also offer that
> the "location" of that commerce is irrelevant to the Lego community--the
> community still gathers to talk about stuff in the same place.
I was not remotely implying that you are not part of the Lego community! I was
stating that e-bay is not part of the Lego community. That 2% every time
effectively never comes back in. (barring complicated theories of market ebb
and flow)
More on this (and the one just above it) lower.
> > Using e-bay to reach a broader market is a bit silly, because they charge
> > you for that market reach, when RTL and Lugnet don't, and the market reach
> > that e-bay gives you is a cross-section of the general public, while RTL and
> > Lugnet give a focused, pro-active market share (people who actively involve
> > themselves in a hobby or activity, rather than people who just wander
>
> That charge is minimal, and when it comes to buying and selling, it
> usually doesn't matter to me with whom I'm doing so. To restrict my
> buying and selling practices because someone isn't a supporter of the
> lego way of life sounds shortsighted to me. Now, *trading* is a
I suspect we're going to have to agree to disagree on this (and I'll attempt to
explain my position lower down)
> different matter. That I do *exclusively* with other lego fans. They're
> the only ones interested in trading, of course, but more important than
> that, our mutual love of lego creates a trusting environment, and
> therefore a more facilitative medium by which we can all get the lego we
> want.
Again, more on that lower.
> > E-bay also opens the door for Lego to become (or to be perceived as) an
> > opportunity for profiteers - I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of
>
> <snip> Ahhh--here is what I believe to be the saving grace of lego:
> Profiteers will eventually come in and start speculating on the big
> stuff. No doubt we'll see a *huge* wave of that when the Star Wars lego
> hits. But the *one* thing that lego has above most other toys when it
> comes to profiteering is that it's in pieces! For someone who's looking
> to make a buck, the set has to be "new in box" or some variation
> thereof. Profiteers don't have the time to go through a box of lego and
> decide what is complete, what's valuable, what other pieces they need,
> etc., and they never will. I believe lego is forever safe from
> profiteers because by virtue of being a *building* toy, and not just
> some "thing" like TransFormers, G.I.Joe, or model cars, the prerequisite
> time involved for any set that is not prepackaged is just too much,
> unless you love lego.
As far as the "professional" profiteer goes, I agree with you. Professionals
will generally not touch toys with a ten-foot pole because they're way too
volitile - nobody can accurately predict whats going to be "big" next week. My
concern is the (warning: prejudices leaking!) trailer park bozo constantly in
search of the "big score" - he wanders through e-bay, sees a whole bunch of
Lego, and notices that pirate boats are selling for a couple hundred bucks
each. He doesn't go out and find pirate boats locally and try to sell them,
no, that would be effort. What he does do, is starts buying them off e-bay,
and stuffing them in a closet, with the mistaken perception that "if they get
200 now, they'll get 300 next week" Now, this guy rarely wins more than 1 or 2
lots (although he's invariaby taken in by the psychological tricks e-bay uses),
but what he *does* do is drive up the price on every single pirate boat that
goes through e-bay, for as long as his 'scam of the week' remains Lego. Given
the sheer volume of traffic going through e-bay, and how easy it is to use,
this guy is all over the place there. Then he goes out and buys 47 "genuine
Italian marble" garden gnomes. ;)
Well, that went on longer than I thought. To my main point.
The RTL and Lugnet community is a fairly close-knit community, of (generally
speaking) intelligent, reasonable adults who have a single hobby in common.
To me, that such a thing exists at all is enough reason to not go outside of
it. When someone from that community sells/auctions a set outside that
community, I feel the community as a whole loses out. Yes, the individual gets
a better return, which then gets put back in (albiet indirectly), but to me,
that benefit is outweighed.
First, prices on e-bay are higher, and that inflates the price of non-retail
Lego beyond what the community sees the value as being. That means that we all
"pay" extra every time a set gets more 'valuable'. Inflation is inevitable,
but it should be related to availability, not to profit. ( I realize that I am
arguing an ideal)
Second, every time someone not part of the Lego community buys a set, it
effectively disappears forever. So each time a set is sold outside the
community, that set becomes harder to find, and the price goes up. Again, we
all pay.
Third, while you get a better return (say 20%), only 18% of that return 'stays'
in the community - the other 2% is effectively lost into the general economy,
and it never comes back.
Fourth, if a set is sold 'outside' the community, then we never know what gets
done with it - there is never any feedback - no website, no newsgroup
discussion sparked by someone finding a great set, nothing. Again, we lose
out, and this is arguably a more significant lose than the money part of the
equation.
Finally, (and this is more of a personal thing than anything else) If there is
someone that I know wants something, I'll sell it to them before I put it in my
garage sale. If I want to get rid of my old lawnmower, I'll see if a
neighbor, or family member, or friend needs it. The knowledge that something
is being used by someone I know, and that I know will care about it and use
it is more important, I believe, than that extra bit of profit. Everytime
someone from RTL/Lugnet goes 'outside' the community, it implies that the
community is less important that the 'almight dollar' - note I did say
"implies".
Anyway. Enough for today. :)
James
http://www.shades-of-night.com/lego/
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: CFD: e-bay (aka ranting and raving)
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| <snip> (...) And that I have no explanation for. I agree 100%, but I cannot explain this "seduction", nor why it happens to some people and not others. <snip> (...) I understand (and thank you! :) but if using an external auction service is (...) (26 years ago, 11-Feb-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: CFD: e-bay (aka ranting and raving)
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| (...) I may have misunderstood what you said before and responded in a rather offended tone in a previous post. Forgive me if it offended you. But I don't agree with this either. If a set will sell for $100 on RTL but might go for $150 on eBay (...) (26 years ago, 11-Feb-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: CFD: e-bay (aka ranting and raving)
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| <snipped a lot of stuff that has already reached conclusion> (...) I agree. I find that the former appear when selling unusual items, and the latter appear when selling big items. The rest tends to even out. (...) I think (2) only occurs when the (...) (26 years ago, 10-Feb-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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