 | | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) This is why I have always thought that the worst part of the LP platform was its unrealistic foreign policy plank. The problem isn't that we have been meddling too much in other countries' affairs, it's that we haven't done enough. If we had (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) I can see the argument. But... No matter what? What is the alternative, though? Property belongs to whoever has the bigger gun? (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Well, how about the fact that Ron Paul, former LP candidate for president, is once again in the GOP and is once again a representative from Texas? If you ask him I suspect he'll tell you he is just as Libertarian as ever and gives just as much (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Kill 'em all"
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(...) <snip> The only laugh I've enjoyed this week: (URL) Rudy www.geocities.com/TJJohn12 (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) [snip] (...) From whence does the 'legitimate ownership' of property arise? I say there is no such thing. Chris (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) This is what the Romans did to Israel. So which claim is legitimate then? Israel's or the Palestinians? (...) From the governed, do they not? Either by consent or by conceding. At any rate, the governed allow what becomes. (...) But what would (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Scott Arthur not welcome?
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(...) sufficient to make that post or class of posts "not welcome" then every single post you make is "not welcome" because there are people saying that very thing about your posts. That's taking your argument to its logical extreme. Further, you (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) In all seriousness, this is news to me. I admit that the LP's views are sometimes in line with what actually comes to pass (just as my views are sometimes also in line), but I wasn't aware of any direct influence. Can you give a cite? Dave! (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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I am still "done" but I spotted a bit of poor wording... fixing it: (...) "that is a majority opinion" refers to the notion of supporting the president no matter what is decided. I don't think nuking is likely to be a majority opinion, (knock on (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) That's a far different statement than your previous and I welcome your expressing your opinion. But calling it pandering is a smear. (...) "Crisis" unless we have several concurrent ones (which I guess you could say we do). I have already (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) Didn't those folks actually go in and buy land from people who they sincerely and with good foundation believed to be the rightful owners at the time (1) rather than settle lands from which the previous owners had been evicted, which is the (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Not an overreaction nor deliberate maliciousness. Just stating my opinion that the LP Statement is moot. The LP must know that their opinion in this crises is moot. Whether or not you like it, the majority of the country could care less about (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) let me add to this then - there has _always_ been a jewish settlement in Israel. Way before 1948. And since the late the 1880s, there has been a secular-jewish settlemens in Israel as well. So the UN did not give "a third group" a land that (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Or as disproof either. You are correct sir. Insert a "necessarily" in the appropriate place so my statement reads: That an opinion is being ignored doesn't *necessarily* make it wrong or even irrelevant. I would say that these particular (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Well, not unless it's being ignored *because* it's wrong or even irrelevant; that is, the fact that an opinion is ignored cannot be taken as proof that it's being ignored for political reasons. Dave! (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) No. Their loss. But that doesn't make it less valid an opinion or less valid as input to the common people who ought to make their stance known to their congressmen, who ultimately have to bear responsibility for funding and approving. That an (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) I don't think that's what he was saying at all. He has said that the LP has no business making its opinion known. (accusing it of pandering is in essence making that charge) I reject that notion, categorically. The LP has as much right (and (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Let me take this a step further. Do you really think Dubya or Colin Powell were sitting back waiting to read the LP opinion before they started planning whatever offensive will occur? (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) What (...) so (...) remote. (...) (Scarcasm on) Actually Dave, I'm all for a Republican War against Bin Laden. (scarcasm off). Dave, thank you summing up what I have been saying. (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) True enough, but I believe Ed's point was that, given the party composition of Congress, the likelihood of a Libertarian Congressional Representative contributing to the forthcoming national policy is quite remote. I don't believe (and please (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) I hope to god that neither the Republicans nor the Democrats will either. What I hope is that all groups, parties, and individuals make their voices heard so that we can go forward as a country united rather than straggling and unsupportive of (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Lar, in this crises, good or bad, the "two big parties" in power hold the only opinions that will be acted upon. While many people and groups may hold opinions, the decisions about to be made will be made by those in power. A very simple (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Kill 'em all"
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This brings to mind the only good (if morbid and slightly hysterical) laugh I've had all week. On the radio Wednesday morning as I was going to (coming home from?) work, the local DJ's were speaking with a psychologist/grief counselor. He was saying (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The unknown author of this suffering.
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(I found this on a comic book website and thought some folks here might want to read it as well, the subject title is taken from the first paragraph) This article was written by Leonard Pitts Jr. of the Miami Herald: They pay me to provide words (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | My God...my truth...my pain...
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This is going to be quite personal I think, and purhaps quite long. It will very likely not be worded well. What I have to say may enrage a few of you, but I am offering my thoughts to the public debate because I am young and still have room for (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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Ross Crawford wrote, quoting Harry Brown: (...) The US did not achieve its objective because it was defeated in battle, which doesn't prove its reasoning for being there was flawed. (...) The US went to Panama to remove its two-bit dictator, which (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) It's Lar, not LAR. Please keep it straight, if you would, ED. Thanks. (...) And when I explained why it isn't, you foamed. I foamed back. Sorry. Do only the two big parties even *get* to have an opinion? Blech. Thank you LFB for the link to HB (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP SPAM statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) I welcomed it. I think Larry and Ed may be splitting semantic hairs over whether or not it is pandering (or promotional), but I'm glad to know what their stance is. The one thing they say that I find myself agreeing with most is the opinion (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) I'm certainly not the one raving - LAR is. I simply stated that the LP issuing a statement is pandering for self promotoion. (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Then why are you raving about it? Chris (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | "Kill 'em all"
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Hi all, I have appreciated the conversation here. There has been talk, which to me as seemed remote, about Americans who are reacting with vehement anger. At work this morning, several coworkers and I were discussing possible productive responses (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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> > I guess you don't know what pandering is, then... In fact maybe you don't > > know what you're talking about at all, with respect to this. That's > > understandable, you're pretty close to the epicenter and can't be expected > > to be 100% (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rooting out nests of snakes and destroying them
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(...) In 1973, Achmed Bouchiki was murdered in Lillehammer, Norway. Investigations revealed that a group of approximately 15 people were sent from Israel to commit the crime. It has been assumed that Ali Hassan Salameh, probably the leader of the (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Editoral Cartoon
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(...) ROSCO (Just kidding Alison!!) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Rather than saviour perhaps you should use “role model”. The problem with that is that everyone version of “civilisation” is not necessarily the same. (...) They problem is that they view the USA as the aggressor. For them, the USA went to war (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Have you hugged a terrorist today? (was: A Measured Response...)
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GJowB8.H8s@lugnet.com... (...) than we (...) that (...) Seriously, what nation in the world has not "initiated the use of force in a cowardly and craven manner against innocents"? (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Have you hugged a terrorist today? (was: A Measured Response...)
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"Amy Hughes" <lugnews@amyhughes.org> wrote in message news:GJotMs.A8t@lugnet.com... (...) than we (...) love- (...) strike a (...) If it meant that what happened on Tuesday would never happen again - would it not be worth it? (...) Islam. ...and 4) (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP SPAM statement on terrorist attacks
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"Ed "Boxer" Jones" <edboxer@aol.com> wrote in message news:GJo2F3.L5o@lugnet.com... (...) here. (...) to (...) I agree, the post was nothing more than the usual SPAM Larry often subjects us to - despite the fact that he knows it is not welcome: (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Sorting Air Safety (Re: Rooting out nests of snakes and destroying them)
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(...) That is easy to say when you are not willing the justify your comment. (...) That is easy to say when you are not willing the justify your comment. Show us what is "false" - I doubt you can. (...) You are wrong. Scott A (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some other perspectives on the tragedy
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(...) Take a look at you foreign policy again. (...) Education is also required in the west. (...) But what about the terrorists that the USA has harbored and helped in the past? What about them? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rooting out nests of snakes and destroying them
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(...) My point was that you are lacking objectivity on this issue. Your response does nothing other than prove my point. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some other perspectives on the tragedy
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(...) Yes. (...) Indeed you have. (...) Larry I hate no one. I read your post on this issue and i see hate. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Have you hugged a terrorist today? (was: A Measured Response...)
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"Amy Hughes" <lugnews@amyhughes.org> wrote in message news:GJotMs.A8t@lugnet.com... (...) Governments hug terrorists everyday. Yasser Arafat was the bin Laden of his day Irish terrorists now sit around the same peace table with those who thought (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) I don't have a problem with a short and sweet black ops kinda thing executed with as close to surgical precision as we can get. I would prefer capture to killing for a variety reasons (i.e. no martyrs, we stay stainless before the world, (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) I wish I'd seen this earlier. The section I especially relate to is: "The U.S. went to Vietnam to stop the Communist dominos from falling, and the entire region fell to the communists. The U.S. invaded Panama, supposedly to end drug-dealing (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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Thought this might make interesting reading. It's by Harry Browne (LP) and though I'm a tad more hawkish than he, he makes great points in favor of moderation. (URL) He articulates what he believes, but most importantly answers some of the (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Have you hugged a terrorist today? (was: A Measured Response...)
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(...) And I think that's going way too far. Their genes have little if anything to do with what they've done. Sweeping statements like this are unlikely to solve anything, and they just serve to increase hate in the community. How do you think (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Huh??? Yes, I'm against military action. That doesn't mean I'm against action. (...) Because thinking about it now will reduce the needless deaths which will just mount up the longer we leave it. (...) 1. List all the wars in history. 2. Put a (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Have you hugged a terrorist today? (was: A Measured Response...)
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(...) My apologies. I forgot which emoticon to use to indicate "user is being sarcastic and employing gross exaggeration" :-) Amy (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | depth of caring
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First, I want to thank Amy for providing that link to pics from the world, wow... Thanks a lot for making me cry again. :-) Second, on a related note which I am sure is being played out all over the country although I haven't got all the details (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Have you hugged a terrorist today? (was: A Measured Response...)
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(...) I disagree with Richard and agree with you on this. I have said before that I personally require certain standards of behaviour before I will consider someone as human (and not merely genetically related to me). These terrorists, by my (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Ann Coultier (was: Re: Jerry Falwell blames feminists, gays, lesbians, ACLU, others...)
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(...) I was a lot of places (Detroit, Toledo, Ft. Wayne, Indy) on Tuesday and I saw gas prices all over the map. But I never saw 5.64. I DID see a lot of stations in the same place with wildly different prices. I shopped on price. But if I had to I (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Editoral Cartoon
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(...) I think I know what I'm putting on my office door... best LFB (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Ann Coultier (was: Re: Jerry Falwell blames feminists, gays, lesbians, ACLU, others...)
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(...) Ack. I usually catch that stuff in editing. It should be "some of the other..." and not the blanket. Actually, the pieces on the flag and on Giuliani were pretty good. The foamers were my immediate consideration. mea culpa. (...) Maybe. But I (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Editoral Cartoon
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Just wanted to share, really says alot: (URL) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Ann Coultier (was: Re: Jerry Falwell blames feminists, gays, lesbians, ACLU, others...)
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(...) Not sure I agree. That may be a bit of a broad brush, there are some foamers there, yes, but I did spend a little time reading a number of other columnists that I felt had merit. the guy saying what a swell guy Guliani has been in this has a (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Have you hugged a terrorist today? (was: A Measured Response...)
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(...) I'll grant only that we share much genetic material. Maybe even moreso than we do with, say, mold spores. (...) What would you consider a measured response? Perhaps we could invite Bin Laden to a national barbeque and have a huge love- in, (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Ann Coultier (was: Re: Jerry Falwell blames feminists, gays, lesbians, ACLU, others...)
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(...) It's a site with forums, that brings up the worst and most twisted of the web for public flogging. Some of the flogging is itself twisted, some of it really indignant, but in general it's just wacky and twisted. They especially pick on Furries (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The god debate again... sigh
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I thought I was pretty good in answering Ian's post without saying anything about god one way or the other... (except of course if you realise that I don't capitalise his name...) About 5 more posts of the god debate and what little willpower I have (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) addressed what to do if the Taliban, even after being presented with clear and credible evidence (assuming it can be developed) that anyone else would accept, thumbs their nose and says you can't have him. So you're nitpicking against taking (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) That's a mischaracterization. Read on. (...) Let's be clear here. We are, in case you hadn't noticed, having a bit of a debate about what we ought to do. Militarily, economically, from a foreign policy perspective, you name it. That debate is (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) I thought he was supposed to be good, and love us all. I wouldn't let one of my loved ones be hurt or killed if I could prevent it, and since God is omnipotent, he CAN prevent such tragedies. So why does he not? I can only think of two (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: America thanks the world
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Thanks Amy. Those pictures are very comforting to me. Julie (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) Don't be. I'm glad you did. Personally, even though I'm not a Christian, I'm glad people find comfort in their faiths. It's still an act of human communion--all religion has a basis in people coming together for worship--and that in itself is (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) Wow, has .o-t.debate become the busiest ng on LUGNET? I think it's very possible. (...) As it sort of answers your note, I'll make the very important point that not ONE serious historian (outside of those in the USSR and some of its satellites (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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O.K...I fully intended to post just the one thing today, and let the chips fall where they may...I knew I shouldn't have even looked back at LUGNET until tomorrow...I knew people would get into it over my bringing up God at a time like this...you (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) The reason is that man acts to benefit man in countless, demonstrable, and tangible ways daily, while this alleged "God" of your has sat on His Divine Butt for two millennia or more without so much as a peep (unless we include the wholly (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) On the contrary, I summarised what I think is appropriate action here (URL) but you (and Jason) haven't proposed any concrete plan of your (...) Does "concrete plan" == "the right response"? (...) On the contrary, I think we've just been shown (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: America thanks the world
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(...) Amy, thanks! The world wants to know that America isn't alone! We are all in this together to help our Sister. We are all in some way or another affected by this. It's hard when you are so far away and want to help in some way. Mel My Husband (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) My point was that He never obligated Himself to intervene in every circumstance. But He is very active. As some have said, it could have been much worse. Two planes were prevented from hitting their targets. The Pentagon was hit in it's least (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Larry, you never cease to amaze me with the insults you will throw out at anyone who disagrees with you. Pandering - catering to the tastes and desires of others; exploiting their weaknesses. The LP is jumping on a crises situation to promote (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) Not callous, realistic. War is messy. Some bullets/bombs go astray. I'm not saying it's acceptable - just true. Every death is a tragedy. A deeper tragedy is that men choose evil and cause death needlessly. (...) huh? (...) At a specific time (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | America thanks the world
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I've mirrored a collection of pictures from around the world that came up in discussion on arstechnica.com... (URL) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Ann Coultier (was: Re: Jerry Falwell blames feminists, gays, lesbians, ACLU, others...)
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(...) What is Portal of Evil?? (...) Whoa. How can someone be so absolutely 100% correct about something: "Barbara risked having her neck slit to warn the country of a terrorist attack. She was a patriot to the very end." and so absolutely 100% (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Ah-ha! I see! God wants us to kill these evil people! Is that it? Maybe His plan is to bring the nation and world together? Please, we are coming together to do only two things: help those who have lost family/friends/property in the attack (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) The declaration of war on the Barbary Pirates seems to have been constitutional... it's the closest analogue to a declaration of war on "terrorists", I'd say. Our borders were attacked and in this day and age that may require force projection (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) That was the goal of the 1993 bombers, who hadn't thought things through nearly so completely. (...) I can't recall if it's cnn.com or cbs.com, but they interviewed five or six members of the design team who are still alive (the prime (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We don't live in America, America lives in US!
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(...) I like that idea. I just thought we did it already. Palestine was partitioned into Israel and Jordan, wasn't it? Why wasn't that satisfactory? Israel was a lot smaller than Jordan too. (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Ann Coultier (was: Re: Jerry Falwell blames feminists, gays, lesbians, ACLU, others...)
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(...) Yeah, I saw this on Portal of Evil yesterday. But along with that was similarly scary hatemongering from Ann Coultier (go figure): (URL) If this doesn't make you shiver at what some of our own countrymen would have us become, nothing will. (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) I acknowledge this is a morbid line to go down, but.. I'm fairly sure that if the planes had had dry tanks instead of full transcontinental loads of Jet-A, the towers would still be standing... the impacts didn't do enough damage to cause the (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Jerry Falwell
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(...) They can espouse it, but can they call it Christianity if it doesn't seem to fit? It doesn't fit what I understand Christianity to be... I mean, isn't that kind of the same as the Red Army selling stock in their phone company and calling it (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Jerry Falwell
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(...) Whoa, Dan and I are in complete agreement on something! How can that be? (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Don't forget that this was done in His name. And since an evil deed was done in His name and he did not stop it, I cannot see how God can be kind and merciful in any way. Jeff (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The killing needs to stop.
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(...) Don't be silly. You are trying to extrapolate from something very personally immediate to something largely abstract. Of course, people have the right to protect themselves even by killing an assailant if need be. Plus in the scenario you are (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Then how can anyone say that God has been merciful. Mercy implies participation. If God isn't participating, then he couldn't have been merciful. (...) What does that have to do with anything I've talked about? I thought the discussion was (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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Geordan, you talk about all this 'mercy' but as far I as I know there have been 5 survivors found and still about 5000 missing or dead. Would you call that mercy? I won't. And the plane 'missing' the white house to hit the Pentagon and kill about (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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Everything has a purpose, whether we see that purpose in a few days, a year, ten years, or even a century, God has a reason for everything. The reason could be very suttle, it could be realised by only a few people, or there could be a number of (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Who would accuse God or anyone of being too controlling if what happened could have been prevented? And who would say God is controlling in anyway now? You said yourself that bad men do bad things and some people enjoy doing bad things, god (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) A lot has been picked over in terms of the rhetoric of peace, so fine...Does the euphemism "collateral damage" mean human lives? How can you be so callous? Aren't we in hell already? (...) What does "historically theirs" mean? I'd like an (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) No cop-outs. The question is not, "How can you believe in God?", but, "How can you believe in man?!" God didn't do this, man did. I like how people expect God to intervene in self serving ways but they don't want Him to interfere with their (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) True; I can't say specifically why this happened. Perhaps, instead, I could offer the "evil is a mystery" cop-out? Perhaps He let this happen to shock us out of complacency. America is used to living securely and safely; contented people are (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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Mark, I'm glad you spoke up, because I was beginning to think I might be the only one who thought this way. Although I can't speak for Mr. Sandlin, I have the same feelings as Mark wrote about, and I am an atheist. I am an archaeologist and one of (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The killing needs to stop.
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(...) Let me say this before I delve into responding point by point below: Ideally, I agree with the sentiments below. They reflect the Christian principles that I hold dear and believe will someday be realized when Christ returns - but not before (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) I don't think anyone is saying we should kill innocents. Official statements refer to "those responsible". However, regrettably some collateral damage is unavoidable. As a side note: when did this notion of "killing the innocent" in war arise? (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We don't live in America, America lives in US!
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I'll play at Solomon here, Dan. Can we divide the baby and each of you take half and be happy? Jerusalem I would give to the U.N. or some other multi-nation organization ad infinitum -- that everyone may visit there in peace. I'm SO tired of the (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) It is amazing that the towers didn't collapse right away, and things could have certainly been much worse. As an engineer, I'll be interested in future reports that will discuss modes of failure. Typically, building design adheres strictly to (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Jerry Falwell
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(...) How can something with so many sects be misrepresented? I mean, in fairness, aren't Jerry and his followers allowed to espouse whatever interpretation of quasi-fundamentalist Xtianity they wish? -- Hop-Frog (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Jerry Falwell has more in common with the Taliban than you think
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In fact, the bombing is all about our commitment to secular values. It is our secular values--love of pleasure, self-reliance, reason, material wealth, technology, freedom, capitalism--that mark the fundamental difference in philosophy between our (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Another Measured Response (was re: Jerry Falwell blames feminists, gays, lesbians, ACLU, others...)
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OMG, what an a*****e!!! Great, just what we need -- another religious zealot! No Jerry, I place the blame at the doorstep of anyone who tries to create difference, and promote intolerance and xenophobia. Such people need to be helped with education, (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Jerry Falwell
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(...) Whoa! Dan and I are in complete agreement on something! Falwell and his fellow reactionary Robertson are both well-established loonies. Dave! (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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