Subject:
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Re: The killing needs to stop.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:11:44 GMT
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Viewed:
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370 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bill Farkas writes:
> Answer me this. What about the fourth plane that crashed in PA? The
> passengers and crew on that plane fought with the terrorists killing them
> and themselves. According to your philosophy, they should have let the
> terrorists live, right? Taking life to protect the innocent is NEVER wrong!
> Killing *IS* sometimes right.
Don't be silly. You are trying to extrapolate from something very
personally immediate to something largely abstract. Of course, people have
the right to protect themselves even by killing an assailant if need be.
Plus in the scenario you are describing, there is an issue of "the needs of
the many outweighing the needs of the few or the one" [star trek ref]. When
someone is holding a gun to your head, Bill -- go at him, boy! With my
blessings!
But when we are sitting here trying to resolve a human problem based on a
cycle of human misery DO let's try to be more civilized.
> If naturalism is true, killing is not only acceptable, it is necessary to >natural selection.
This is isn't the natural world any more. It's the world you and I created.
We created it with technology, with competing idealogies, with poisoned
wastes, with lofty fantasies of what may be in the future. Would you prefer
a fantasy based on terror, or one based on mutual cooperation?
> If we respond with greater military force, it would not be "low violence."
> Also, who is talking about "indescriminate bombing?"
I'll give the word "indescriminate" there, but I have heard Powell talk of a
prolongued military action against our old pal Osama.
> We did not defeat Hitler by becoming like Hitler. We did what was right.
> According to your "live and let live" philosophy, we should have sat back
> and let him conquer the world.
No. Actually, we aren;t supposed to get in bed with in the first place.
Don't you keep up on current events in Europe, man? Many corporations liked
Hitler until he started killing the slave labor force...
> Seeing that they oppose us supporting Israel, should we then acquiesce and >not support Israel?
I don't need them telling me what to do. But why should we support Israel?
> If it was not evil, how can you demand justice or imprisonment.
I am beyond good and evil -- although they are excellent rhetorical terms. I
support an idea that is useful for the long term peaceable exchange between
people -- "Do NOT unto others as you would have others NOT do unto you."
When people do unto each other great harm instead, peace-loving people must
redress the matter in a solid, yet limited manner. This is only to keep the
peace.
> Does not equate. When was the last time you were in an interpersonal
> relationship where an acquaintance wanted to harm you because of another
> acquaintance?
Acquaintances? You don't get around much, eh Bill?
> The bombs dropped on Japan in WWII dramatically shortened the war thereby >saving lives!!
I deny this monstrous assertion. You speak as if human lives on earth mean
nothing. In my view, human lives ON EARTH are almost the only thing.
> those countries have resources and available technology to become as
> prosperous as we are. You sound like you assume that we have just been lucky
> and that our prosperity has nothing to do with working for and earning it.
> They would be prosperous if they would follow our example. There are more
> than enough resources for the world to share in our wealth. Their own
> governments "bleed them for cheap labor."
I can already tell you don't support affirmative action, and I can tell that
you have no idea how start a game where the winners are already determined.
> Peace will never exist apart from God.
That is THE drivel, Bill. Or didn't you know that the terrorist were richly
rewarded in a place beyond this world? You have more in common with them
than with those of us who are seeking a REAL solution and not just one that
satisfies our personal mythologies.
Earth can be what we make of it -- heaven or hell is at hand. We need only
choose.
> We are the ones who seek peace. Allowing these thugs to perpetrate such acts
> with only the threat of imprisonment is a joke. Our federal prisons are like
> Hiltons to these people. We'd be doing them a favor.
I don't care -- I have no sense of vengeance in the matter. As long as they
cannot work their violence in the world, the problem is contained.
> Why do you assume we haven't?! No other country has done more to foster
> peace than the U.S.
On the surface. What lies below is another matter altogether...
> Protecting our own - not to mention making the world safer
> by removing this scum - is not contradictory to the notion of peace. I will
> say again, sometimes war and killing actually saves more lives!!!!
On a very limited scale, you might be right. But first, they are not scum
-- you are scum for calling other human beings scum. War is hardly ever a
good idea. Killing under emergency conditons is sometimes called for, but
the idea that some prolonged military action is called for in response to
our current crisis is something I cannot and will not support.
> The world is what it IS - not what you WISH it was. We can't deal in fantasy ->we'll never fix anything that way.
Geez, Bill -- you're the one who believes in god. Your fantasy is the
war-monger of "The Book Of Conquests"
[see:http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=12591].
MY fantasy is one of an Earth Mother locked in the act of love with the
Horned God of the Sun. I don't happen to ACTUALLY believe in my fantasy,
but I think it is more aesthetically pleasing than your fantasy...
-- Hop-Frog
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: The killing needs to stop.
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| (...) Let me say this before I delve into responding point by point below: Ideally, I agree with the sentiments below. They reflect the Christian principles that I hold dear and believe will someday be realized when Christ returns - but not before (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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