Subject:
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Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:07:30 GMT
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Viewed:
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995 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mark Sandlin writes:
> In article <GJoA9E.IzC@lugnet.com>, "Bill Farkas" <wolfe65@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> > No cop-outs. The question is not, "How can you believe in God?", but, "How
> > can you believe in man?!" God didn't do this, man did.
>
> Then how can anyone say that God has been merciful. Mercy implies
> participation. If God isn't participating, then he couldn't have been
> merciful.
My point was that He never obligated Himself to intervene in every
circumstance. But He is very active.
As some have said, it could have been much worse. Two planes were prevented
from hitting their targets. The Pentagon was hit in it's least populated
spot. The WTC could have collapsed sooner. Those are not very consoling, I
realize, but true none-the-less.
Such actions prove the existence of evil, not the efficacy of God's mercy.
It's hard to deal with this in a framework that does not accept God or the
Bible. Evil exists for a purpose. If God intervened in *every* circumstance
to prevent evil acts, then why allow evil to exist in the first place.
Notice I did not assert that God created or causes evil. Much of this is
contingent upon understanding God's nature and the nature of the creation
from the beginning thru to it's final state. I realize that many here will
nitpick each and every assertion I offer in this regard (been there, done
that) that's why I am hesitant to go at it again.
>
> > I like how people
> > expect God to intervene in self serving ways but they don't want Him to
> > interfere with their "fun."
>
> What does that have to do with anything I've talked about? I thought the
> discussion was about mercy?
As you said, His mercy implies active intervention. I was asserting that if
God was active to that extent some would accuse Him of being too
controlling. After all, we can't just expect Him to intervene when it's
convenient for us. Enjoying His presence comes with certain expectations as
well. We are to show our appreciation to Him by obeying Him - not
whimsically or arbitrarily, but because we trust His love and believe that
His ways are best. Without that love and trust, obedience is meaningless.
That's not to say that His mercy is contingent upon obedience - otherwise it
wouldn't be mercy, but debt. Mercy implies getting what you don't deserve.
That is where things get sticky.
>
>
> > If God were to intervene in such ways, some
> > would accuse Him of being too controlling. Bad men chose to do a bad thing.
> > Some people enjoy doing bad things. God has never made a promise obligating
> > Himself to intervene in such instances. He has given *us* freedom to choose.
> > This has nothing to do with His goodness. We tainted His perfect creation by
> > our sin. Your question is a cop-out, and is as old as the hills.
>
> My question is a cop-out of what? I'm not following you here.
Your question is a reflection of an accusation. It implies that God does
exist but not as He represents Himself to be, that He is unfair. Men have
been levelling this accusation for millennia. It totally denies the human
root of the problem.
>
> > Pain and suffering are man's fault not God's.
>
> I agree. And by the same token, the rescue efforts are man's mercy and
> not God's.
Why is it not the evidence that we have come from God, evidence of His
essence within us?
>
> > > No we don't. I see PEOPLE coming together and helping.
> >
> > That's funny, I saw PEOPLE hijack and crash those planes. I also saw three
> > plane loads of PEOPLE sit by and "allow" those planes to be hijacked and
> > crashed (the fourth didn't).
>
> Yes, I agree completely. And God did nothing, therefore he is showing no
> mercy, since he's not involved.
Did nothing? Preventing two planes from hitting their targets is nothing? I
don't know if the people on Capitol Hill would agree. Every person who did
not die in the tragedy is an act of mercy.
>
> > > > Let's be thankful for His mercy during such a tragedy.
> > >
> > > What mercy? Where is the mercy for:
> > >
> > > -All the victims of the crashes
> >
> > If the next life can be said to be better than this, there it is.
>
> Really? All the victims, or just the Christian ones? How do you know?
This goes back to the definition of mercy. Think before you ask.
>
> > > -The people who worked in the WTC
> > >
> > > -The missing rescue workers
> > >
> > > -The American Muslims who are being Persecuted in the Christian God's
> > > name.
> >
> > Who said it was in the name of the Christian's God? It wasn't me.
>
> All the people yelling on CNN said it was.
Didn't see it. But does that mean CNN stands for Christian News Network?
>
>
> > > I fail to see any evidence of God's mercy. I only see evidence of people
> > > whose lives have been destroyed and changed forever.
> > >
> > > I have the utmost respect for all those who have risen to help. But I
> > > have no respect for a God who would allow this to happen.
> >
> > Have you intervened to prevent every foul deed you have witnessed or new was
> > happening?
> >
> > I didn't think so.
> >
> > So, you yourself "allow" things to transpire that you do nothing to stop?
> > Hmmm. Why is that? Therein lies your answer.
> >
> > It's convenient and easy to blame God because then you won't have to face
> > the deeper issues.
>
> I'm thoroughly confused by your last paragraph. It sounds kind of like
> you're attacking my integrity because I don't agree with you. I met you
> when you were out here in Seattle, and you seemed like a much nicer
> person than that. I hope I'm misunderstood about your intent here.
Not at all, no attacks. This is why I closed with "Respectfully" - hoping
you wouldn't misconstrue my remarks. I apologize if I was careless. I happen
to think I'm nice. :~) Thanx, by the way.
I was referring to some of the deeper, tougher stuff mentioned above. We all
allow evil deeds to transpire, sometimes at our own hands. Why? Questions
for introspection only. No accusations.
I like to lead people to ask questions rather than just give answers before
they ask.
>
> ~Grand Admiral Muffin Head
PFC Bill
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