Subject:
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Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 17 Sep 2001 01:32:14 GMT
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Viewed:
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1478 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Ross Crawford writes:
> > > > As soon as any conclusive eveidence for his existence shows up, the whole
> > > > christian belief will crumble. And simply put, those who believe in such a
> > > > god must explain everything in terms of that faith.
> > > >
> > > > Thus god cannot intervene in any way that makes it obvious to everyone that
> > > > it's god intervening, or he instantly loses all his followers.
> >
> > Adam and I disagree; see above.
>
> Yes, I re-read that and realised it wasn't a good description of my belief.
> Perhaps closer: "...he instantly loses all his followers, *from his point of
> view*, because they no longer have to make any choice to follow him."
Okay. But this is what I say about the faith issue: God wants us to follow
Him by faith. If you have absolute proof, you remove the faith option.
> > > > As to the creationist thing, well that's been debated here (and many other
> > > > places) before, and will be again, but I'm happy with the possibility that:
> > > >
> > > > 1. god, if he exists, is an entity beyond our understanding, so may in fact
> > > > be consistent with "proof" that no being (as per our knowledge of beings)
> > > > could have created the universe;
> >
> > He *Himself* is beyond our understanding, but His infiniteness can manifest
> > itself in finite ways that we can understand.
>
> I agree with this - I don't think it contradicts my point 1.
Okay. But the universe had to be initiated by something, and if it wasn't
God, what was it?
> > > > 2. evolution may be the tool that god devised to create the universe
> > > > (including the world & man).
> >
> > Possibly. But I doubt God wasted His time by fiddling around with the laws
> > of chance and engineering evolution; that would have introduced a middleman.
> > I think He did it Himself.
>
> Well I disagree that it necessarily introduces a "middleman" - the tools of
> evolution & chance may have already been "available" to him - they may be
> things he uses every day, so were the obvious choice when creating his
> masterpiece.
>
> Note that this doesn't necessarly contradict your assertion that he's a god of
> order, either - to him, what we call evolution & chance may be the perfect
> order. His "thoughts" are beyond our understanding.
Okay. But they are ordered because they behave according to a certain
logic. Chance is random, but it can be measured by the laws of probability.
>
> > > >
> > > > Dunno if this all makes sense or not...
> >
> > Debate brings out the truth. Keep debating until it makes sense :).
>
> Well, it certainly brings out a lot of differing points of view, anyway...
1 Thes. 5:21, "Test all things" to find the truth.
>
> ROSCO
--Ian
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