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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
>
> > > > But it should also be considered a wake up call to our
> > > > government
> > >
> > > Correct. It is indeed a wake up call.
> > >
> > > > for it's unarguable role in fostering aggression and hatred
> > > > around the world, and within our own borders as with Oklahoma City.
> > >
> > > You're full of it here, though. It's extremely arguable.
> > >
> > > I'm dismayed, and even a little sickened, but not surprised, that you'd use
> > > any opportunity to parrot your usual tripe. The US, flaws and all, is more
> > > of a world saviour than a world oppressor. It is time you realised that.
> >
> >
> > This really is rich coming from you, the USA may well be viewed as a world
> > saviour by many - but my understanding is that "world saviour" is not a roll
> > you are happy with. Or have events this week changed that?
>
> I am comfortable with being a world saviour in the sense that we set a good
> example to the rest of the world on how to do things and how be free
> (imperfect, but better than, say, Syria), but not in the sense of being the
> world's policeman. We did not take on the duty of fixing everything. But now
> that we have been attacked by snakes we must go and root out the nest for
> our own safety's sake. If it makes the rest of the world a better place as a
> by product, I'm OK with that as well.
>
> I have never supported foreign intervention for any reason other than a
> selfish one, to wit, that it was the only way to defend our own citizens at
> home. Not because it was our duty to defend the rest of the world, or even
> our citizens abroad.
Rather than saviour perhaps you should use “role model”. The problem with
that is that everyone version of “civilisation” is not necessarily the same.
>
> But defeating the USSR, for example, although done for selfish reasons, had
> a great by product, it made the rest of the world safer.
>
> The aggressor has made the mistake of attacking the homeland. They will pay.
They problem is that they view the USA as the aggressor. For them, the USA
went to war with them a long time ago.
>
> If I were Saddam Hussein, who has made the foolish mistake of exulting, I'd
> be enjoying the running water while I could. That country needs to be
> disassembled too, their citizens freed, and the oil pumped out and sold to
> pay war reparations.
Hmm stopping running water in Iraq... the women and children will pay the
price again.
>
> Latest news is that the "Afghan government is in hiding". They can run and
> hide but they cannot escape. Secretary Powell declined to specify what would
> be done but said a week deadline for all of bin Laden's organization to be
> turned over to the west was not unreasonable. He's being too generous.
In your view. But it clear to me why Powell runs your country (who is the
other guy?) and you do what ever you do. Perhaps you want him to bomb more
pharmaceutical factories in the developing world? That is what happens when
one reacts without thinking:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/monitoring/newsid_426000/426006.stm
>
> I note that you did not respond to my call for concrete suggestions with
> concrete suggestions. Rather you sniped. Predictable.
I made my suggestions before your "call". You want to bomb bomb bomb, I
prefer to educate.
>
> L. Wilkes, who I fundamentally disagree with on many levels, at least took
> the time to think through some of the ramifications and raised some very
> good points, making the key point that there is no way to win a permanent
> and absolute victory "forever" without fundamentally changing who we are.
>
> You might take a lesson from your countryman and try more thinking and less
> sniping.
Larry I have thought about this. I am thinking - you are reacting.
It is that simple.
Scott A
>
> ++Lar
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: War
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| (...) I am comfortable with being a world saviour in the sense that we set a good example to the rest of the world on how to do things and how be free (imperfect, but better than, say, Syria), but not in the sense of being the world's policeman. We (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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