 | | ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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Hello beta testers, I put a new version of ldglite on the web. You can find it at (URL) the case sensitive filesystem issues have been resolved. Translucent pieces look kinda translucent. Type 2 lines look good. (well they look good to me anyways) I (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff [DAT]
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(...) Waycool! I'm wicked excited to try out anything LDraw-related for Linux. I almost got it working, but not quite. :-( It seems to be running and thinking real hard, but all it displays is a blank white window. Notes: * System is PII333 / RHL6.1 (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Cool! I found a sucker (er, um, I mean a beta tester). My first guess is it's having trouble finding the LDRAW path. That'll give you a white screen for sure. I think I included a grey cylinder dat file that doesn't require any other files. If (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Oops, I hit tab key and it posted the message before I was finished. Lets try again. Cool! I found a sucker (er, um, I mean a beta tester). My first guess is it's having trouble finding the LDRAW path. That'll give you a white screen for sure. (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Yes, I did disable the message. In main.c the printf() in platform_comment() is disabled (probably because it spewed way to much information). I think if you inserted this you'd be happier. if (level == 0) printf("comment %s\n", message); I'm (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Pretty sure that's not the problem...because when I run it with the default LDRAW path (or with LDRAWDIR explicitly set to the right location) then it chews away for varying amounts of time depending on which file it's asked to display. And I (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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Nutz! You've exhausted all my easy guesses. Now I'll actually have to think about this... Perhaps there's something funny about the Mesa installation. I just went with what installed automatically from the Mandrake CD. However I did have to make (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) $ cd /usr/X11R6/lib $ ls -la *GL* ls: *GL*: No such file or directory $ ls -la *gl* ls: *gl*: No such file or directory Hmm, maybe that's the problem. I didn't think of making the symlinks from there because it stopped complaining at me when I (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Yuk! Your libs and mine are not setup anywhere near the same way. I have NOTHING in /usr/local/lib. All the X stuff is in /usr/X11R6/lib. The Mesalibs were already there when I installed off the Mandrake CD so I left them there, even though (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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I just thought of another thing to try. In main.c search for #ifdef DRAW_AXIS. Put this right above it. #define DRAW_AXIS 1 This will draw the x,y,z axis in red, green, and blue like in the gif file on the website. That'll show if GL is working. I (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I didn't either, until I compiled & installed Mesa. (...) Yup, same here (except Mesa). (...) Whoa, that's interesting... You had trouble linking before making the softlinks?? I don't remember having trouble linking at all -- but I definitely (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Hmm, same thing -- blank white window. :-( (...) First, make sure you've got cookies enabled in your browser. Then go to (URL) fill that out as you did before, and before pressing Submit, make sure that the checkbox labeled "Keep my (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Ah Ha! I guess that proves the problem is with GL. Now how do we fix it... (...) Yeah, I knew that, but I'm too lazy to find my way to the setup page. Then I get the reminder when I go to post. Thanks for the link though. Perhaps you could add (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Weird. It was looking for the object libraries at runtime, yet the filesize was wicked huge. (I wonder what's up with that? It should only be a few Kb in size.) Now I just linked it a different way -- closer to what the Mesa demos do -- and it (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Hmmm, perhaps now we're onto something. My executable is only 189110 bytes. Significantly smaller! ;^) I don't think the executable is supposed to be statically linked. I didn't add anything to the makefile to do that. Do you have the .a files (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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libtool eh? What the heck is that? I seem to have it in /usr/local/bin but "man libtool" turns up nothing. I guess I'll have to read the man pages on gcc and ld to find out more about the shared libs vs static linking switches. Oh well, I was gonna (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) ... (...) Quoting the ldglite home page: (...) Which probably isn't the problem, but what the heck. Steve (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I had this up and running in a few minutes under Win98. Adequate launching and rendering achieved by dragging files onto the executable (in Explorer). Rendering was definitely slower than LDLite. When looking for subfiles, LDLite will look in (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Actually I'm not quite as impressed as I was a few minutes ago. I checked the size of the executable in the zip file and it's only 81064 bytes. The bloat we saw was the debugging symbols. You can remove them with this. strip ldglite I now (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) and (...) Which windows compiler did you try? VC++ or gcc or the exe in the zip file? (...) Do you mean the /ldraw/model dir or whatever directory the model on the command line is in? eg. c:\mydatfiles in the example below. ldglite (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Whoa -- the ldglite I produced via libtool is an sh wrapper for .libs/ldglite produced by ltmain.sh (part of libtool I guess). That's how it's so small! :) 3k seemed awful small to me too -- almost unbelievable. 20k I could believe easily, 3k (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Funny other thing, though: If I go into main.c and just start hacking some of the constants and recompile, I can get it to do things like position the window anywhere I want, or make it any size, or make it come up with any background color (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) My /usr/local/lib has: libGL.so -> libGL.so.1.2.0 libGLU.so -> libGLU.so.1.2.0 libglut.so -> libglut.so.3.7.0 and as far as I can tell, the symlinks do point to real library files... $ file * libGL.la: English text libGL.so: symbolic link to (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) OK, I grabbed a new zipfile and tried that. It gacked at me until I did this: $ su # cd /usr/lib ln -s /usr/local/lib/libglut.so.3 ln -s /usr/local/lib/libGLU.so libMesaGLU.so.3 ln -s /usr/local/lib/libGL.so libMesaGL.so.3 exit $ ./ldglite (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) $ make -f makefile.linux gcc -c -g -DUNIX -DUSE_OPENGL ldliteVR_main.c gcc -c -g -DUNIX -DUSE_OPENGL stub.c stub.c: In function `init_zimage': stub.c:1062: warning: comparison of distinct pointer types lacks a cast stub.c: In function (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Yeah, at this point I think the problem is not with linking or shared libs, but perhaps a problem between Mesa and your X server. What X server are you using? Is it XFree86 or one of those commercial servers. I seem to recall official redhat (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I didn't compile -- I used the .exe in the zip distribution. (...) I mean c:\mydatfiles. (...) My image doesn't look like your image. See (URL). I am using ldglite0_2.zip. My opengl dlls came from the glutdlls.zip on your Geocities site. (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) My (...) opengl (...) (don't (...) This is really disappointing. I was having such great luck with things just working on all the systems I've tried at home. Now Todd gets a blank screen when he compiles for redhat and you get the edge lines (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) $ X -showconfig XFree86 Version 3.3.5 / X Window System (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6300) Release Date: August 23 1999 If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is newer than the above date, look for a newer (...) (24 years ago, 28-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Hmm, just noticed something else. Your filenames for Mesa say libMesaGL* instead of libGL*. I don't think that's a problem, but it might be a clue. According to the VERSIONS file in the Mesa 3.1 tarball[1], the library names were changed from (...) (24 years ago, 28-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) The Mesa beta versions were known to be buggy, and the API hasn't changed but I heard that version 3.1 is not binary compatible with 3.0, I don't think this should affect you since you're compiling the file yourself. I'll try to compile and (...) (24 years ago, 28-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I get: glut.dll C:\Apps\ldraw\ldglite 154624 bytes Dec/11/1997 glut32.dll C:\Apps\ldraw\ldglite 154624 bytes Dec/11/1997 GLU32.DLL E:\WIN98\SYSTEM 140224 bytes May/11/1998 OPENGL32.DLL E:\WIN98\SYSTEM 753808 bytes May/11/1998 So it looks like (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) files (...) Rats, I did some reading this weekend and discovered the glPolygonOffset() function I used to highlight the lines was added in gl version 1.1. I was really hoping this was the problem. Oh well, I know another way, I just have to do (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jan-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Hey, that would be great! But before you compile it, I think I have a fix for the empty window problem Todd's been seeing. If you find the line with gluPerspective() in main.c, change the -500.0 to 1000.0. Apparently it's clipping EVERYTHING (...) (24 years ago, 1-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Schwing! Wicktoree! --Todd (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I've tried and it worked after fixing the gluPerspective call, it's very slowe (LeoCAD renders the WTOWER.DAT file in less than 1 second) but at least it works. The last 2 parameters to gluPerspective are the distance from the viewer to the (...) (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Hmmm, that sounds like a commercial for LeoCAD. ;^) And a target, 1 second eh? Seriously though, It'll never reach those speeds parsing DAT files, but hopefully when I switch to display lists for the redraws... Just for the record, how slow (...) (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Actually the Windows version of LeoCAD takes 0.35 seconds to render on my P2 350 with a TNT card (the Linux version should be more a less the same speed). I don't use display lists, I use vertex buffers or CVA's if the driver supports it. (...) (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Whoa. That's the same WTOWER.DAT distributed with ldglite. The one that LDLite, on my Pentium 400 with Win98, renders in 5.8 seconds? Amazing. Steve (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Bummer. (...) STB Velocity 400. I should know the chipset, but I don't. Steve (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Well I haven't read the section of the book on vertex arrays yet. From a quick glimpse I suspect they won't help me much since I'm using the LDRAW files rather than a converted database of parts. I'm surprised you don't use display lists at a (...) (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) How long does it take with LdGLite on your P400? Try it at a similar resolution with the -V6 or -V5 command line switches to make it fair. Go ahead, I won't be embarrased if the numbers are really poor since I've spent absolutely no time (...) (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I only heard of the Velocity 4400, it uses a Riva TNT chip. Leonardo (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I haven't looked at your code but it looks like you're using a single buffered window, that's a huge slowdown since drivers are optimized for games and games use double buffered windows and of course, a single buffer window is always slower. I (...) (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Yes, the file included in the ldglite zip. :) Now another question, why there are so many people writing different CAD programs ? I believe that we surely would be a lot better if we helped each other instead of start a new project. Please (...) (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I've gotta remember to remove that WTOWER.DAT file so folks can't tell what a lousy builder I am. :) (Besides, it uses an unofficial piece or two) (...) Now you're onto something. I started with ldlite because the source was in C/C++ and was (...) (24 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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Ha ha ha ha Hohohoho Hehehehehe. You must be new around here. That's *not* how these people think. -gyug (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I believe that all new computers have 3D cards and the current format of the library is very easy to use but it's not good for hardware acceleration. (...) Hmm... :pserver:guest@gerf....r/cvsroot, pw = guest. :) Leonardo (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I really don't understand you, I'm not the one who has problems sharing (what I have done or what others have done). Ha ha ha ha Hohohoho Hehehehehe. Leonardo (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Cool! That is my long term goal with LDraw-mode, too. I'm hoping to be able to make Emacs/LDraw-mode communicate (over X?) with some CAD system. That will give me the power and flexibility of Emacs combined with the joy of the LDraw format. (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) What about the parts libraries used by the Ray tracing folks? Or is a totally new format in order? Either way I think the right thing to do is start with some utilities that convert the LDRAW formatted parts to whatever form we want to use. (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Well, excuse my ignorance, but I couldn't find the source at (URL) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Take a look at my previous post, LeoCAD is GPL. I know it doesn't look like LDraw but you can still run "leocad foo.dat" and it will render the file or "leocad foo.dat -i foo.gif" and it will save a GIF file (JPG, PNG and BMP also supported). (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) A feature I already started adding to ldglite is to take ldraw commands from stdin if no filename is present on the commandline. I think this lends itself better to external control than polling a file. This is of course based on my completely (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Yes, I totally agree with you. I think that once you bother to learn the LEdit keycodes, it is much quicker to use than a "point and click" CAD system. I think that any new LDraw-based CAD system should also imlement the LEdit kecodes for the (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Yes! Yes! Yes! Although not surprising coming from another EMACS user. It's amazing how hard it is to convince people that you can get things done so much faster if your fingers never leave the keyboard. Unfortunately it requires training to (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) You can keep compatibility with the POV libraries but each one (LGEO, L3P and Anton Rave's (?)) use a different coordinate system. LeoCAD uses the parts from LGEO first and then if something is missing, it creates the parts using its own (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Ah yes, the command line interface. Much better! I should just delete that pesky WinCvs fish icon right off the desktop. Don (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) But the important thing is probably that the renderer must be able to save existing data structures (parts and primitives) so that it can quickly display an updated version of the DAT file without reloading them. I would like to have even more (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) If you can to all the non-Emacs things, I will be happy to do the rest! :-) Seriously, though, the important thing is probably that the communication protocol ends up in a way which is useful for both of us. Fredrik (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I was planning to make a display list for each part brought in from the PARTS directory. Right now I think the files are cached, so they're only read once, but they're still reparsed every time the same piece is used. This seems like a perfect (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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Leonardo, you are better than most, perhaps the best at contributing. The comment was not directed at you, but at the idea that publishing source would reduce the number of incompatible/redundant CAD tools. There is something disfunctional about the (...) (24 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) I think I would need something more. What I would like to do is this. (Please tell me if I'm just dreaming! :-) I would like to give the rendering program instructions as to what changes has been done to the DAT file since the last time it (...) (24 years ago, 4-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Oops. You're right, it's a 4400. Steve (24 years ago, 4-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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Paul: [ Tells us that we are behaving a little bit silly. ] You are probably right, but... I think that the main problem is that practically none of us are experienced CAD developers or users. Some of Paul's points: - Different coordinate systems I (...) (24 years ago, 4-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) And earlier programs. BriCAD, L3G0, Ben's (?) POV library, VBLOCKs (an SGI GL program) and I think LegoPS (postscript) used different coordinates & units. Or at least they were all different from L3G0. (...) L3G0 call a brick a "b2x4"; BriCAD (...) (24 years ago, 5-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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Paul: (...) Yes (what a mess). As a mathematician and physicist I prefer right-hand rectangular coordinate systems with the first two coordinates (x and y) in the plane and the last coordinate (z) having the positive direction up. The units should (...) (24 years ago, 6-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Another nice thing about LDraw type programs is that you see the model being built as it renders, unlike POV, where you just see the final image. --Bram Bram Lambrecht / o o \ BramL@juno.com ---...---oooo-----(_...o---...--- WWW: (URL) (24 years ago, 6-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: ldglite (ldlite for OpenGL and Linux) new stuff
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(...) Hmm. POV-Ray description files could possibly handle step-wise construction by playing with the timer (clock?), a feature used to produce animation files. I haven't played much with POV-Ray since I took up LDraw, especially not authoring (...) (24 years ago, 7-Feb-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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