Announcements : 3637


Announcements / 3637

The Future of Trains —

Steve Witt

I'm posting this on behalf of Richard Stollery, head of LEGO Community Development: LEGO 9V Train Communication Billund, Oct. 1st ’07 Dear all, Many of you are aware of the on-going discussions on the 9V train system. We would like to thank you all (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.announce) !!

Re: The Future of Trains —Todd Thuma

(...) Okay, I accept that the LEGO Company is moving on from the 9V trains. There is quite a history of them moving from one Train platform to another. How many of us have 12 volt or 4.5 volt trains? Let me put a question to the LEGO Company. Will (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Niels Karsdorp

(...) Well I do. The last 5 years I have build up a huge collection of blue track (both 12 volt and 4.5 volt), as well as trains from that era (1966-1979) and many parts, like motors, train bases, etc. All long after the last production run by TLC (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Jude Beaudin

(...) <snip announcement details> (...) Are the expected changes for 2009 from the ground up (new track standards, wheels, etc...) or is it going to be a continuation of the existing IR train stuff with probably a new power/control system? Jude (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —

Steve Witt

(...) good question. while working on the new system its going to be very important that it be as backwards compatible as possible. L-gauge will not go away. the new system will be able to incorporate track from 9v and plastic rails into it. we'll (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Todd Thuma

(...) Steve, Pardon me for saying so, but your statement above is a little confusing. How was the conversion from 12v to 9v a "ground up" switch. The 12v trains I have run on the 9v track. The 9v trains I have run on the 12v track I have (well they (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —

Steve Witt

(...) ah, forgive me. I've never actually seen any 12v stuff :( I was just trying to throw out an example so, whoops. The track will all work together still like the current plastic track works still with metal track. the main difference is where (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —John Gerlach

I'm really afraid of what will become of this decision. What to do now? Stock up on any remaining 9volt stuff I can get? Switch back to 6-wide trains if these new motors aren't strong enough to pull 8-wides? Cross my fingers and hope this decision (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Ted Godwin

(...) Good question for those, like me, without much of a train collection (yet). I guess I could be considered "lucky" that I don't have the investment in track and accessories but I cannot even do much more than a really big oval with what I have. (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Don Cox

(...) I believe this to be a very bad decision, to discontinue the 9volt system at this time. Perhaps the new electrical system will be better, but at this time, it is still in the planning stage and is curently scheduled to be out in 2009. What do (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Harvey Henkelman

(...) I know how you feel, my recent re-involvement in the hobby has come to a screeching halt. (...) Be sure to tell those interested that the 9V system is discontinued. After all, this is the calamity of the LEGO Group -- they brought this upon (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Todd Thuma

(...) Hey Harvey, I think you missed the point in the original post by Steve. The next "Train" will have motors as well. What we do not know is if the motors will fit in existing locomotive designs allowing the trains to look realistic. If the new (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Duane Collicott

(...) In some industries (e.g., integrated circuits) they do a "final build" before taking a product to end-of-life. They announce the final build, take orders, and then perform that one last production run. This keeps customers happy and allows (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Eric Kingsley

Well I posted this announcement at the (URL) site... Personally, I have to say that I have doubts that any battery powered system will meet the needs of clubs doing shows. Even a robust, rechargable battery system has considerable limitations. (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Brian Davis

(...) Absolutely. So does powering the system through the rails, actually - in order to control multiple trains you need carefully isolated sections of track (which LEGO never made in the first place) and rigorous control, as well as booster (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains) !

Re: The Future of Trains —Todd Thuma

Eric, I am considering buying stock in battery manufacturing. How about you? I have probably already spent a considerable sum of money on powering my Mindstorms robots. Maybe someone will design a butane based fuel cell that will work. Or perhaps a (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Bob Parker

(...) This reminds me - has anyone built a fully functioning overhead rail electric train layout where the power is provided by the overhead wires like this: (URL) This would alleviate the need for powered rails and do away with the battery issue. (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Jordan Schwarz

(...) The only issue with this is that standard catenary has a single wire to deliver current, and metal rails act as the "ground" for the circuit. One could instead adopt a setup like that used for electric buses in cities such as San Francisco, (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Martin Srb

(...) Two-pole contact is needed. But most of the electrified railways use only one overhead wire (like the ex-Soviet loco in the photo). The only examples of more-wire systems I know about, are deep in the history: --Siemens' experimental (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Didier Enjary

(...) SNIP (...) In France nowadays (and most part of Europe), almost all freight engines are electric. (thank to a highly available hydroelectricity and nuclear electricity). It remains of course some diesel engines but they are replaced for (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Tim David

In lugnet.trains, Didier Enjary wrote: SNIP (...) Ironically, in the UK, when the (US) Winsconsin Central took over the main freight operator, EWS, they reduced the use of electric locos, presumably because they couldn't get their heads round using (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Tim David

In lugnet.trains, Martin Srb wrote: SNIP (...) The (URL) Tim (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Eric Kingsley

(...) I just wanted to make sure folks know that my glass is also half full at the moment dispite some skepticism about pulling power and battery life. I also agree with Ben Fleskes in terms of AFOL insiders working very hard for the masses. (URL) (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Bryan Kinkel

It sounds like a survey is in order... Take all the feature wish lists from individuals and clubs, boil them down and prioritize them. I'm sure LEGO and the AFOL insiders have their own set of lists based on the tons of feedback from lugnet.trains, (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains // Wishlist —Holger Matthes

Hi Eric, Hi Bryan, Hi all, you are right, we are under NDA and I will not comment on any posting either positive or negative about the train announcement. We AFOL insiders will read all theses posts and we will transport any suggestion into our (...) (17 years ago, 4-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains // Wishlist —Eric Kingsley

Holger, Thanks for your reply. I am glad to hear from an insider even if you can't say anything. I do realize you are only a conduit for information and can't actually make the decisions. I would personally be happy to setup something as a (...) (17 years ago, 4-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains // Wishlist —Don Cox

(...) Point of view? I enjoy working with my LEGO trains. I put out a lot of work in 'abusing' my trains to do a show, both for the visitor and mine own pleasure. The model Railroad Hobby is the largest Hobby in the world. It is done almost in every (...) (17 years ago, 4-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains // Wishlist —Jason Spears

(...) Well put Don. Better than I could have done. Every time I started to write something up I had trouble containing my anger and writing something constructive. Right now my hope lies not with the LEGO company, but with fans, finding ways to (...) (17 years ago, 4-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains // Wishlist —Timothy Gould

(...) Yes you do 'abuse' the system in the sense that Holger means. LEGO trains are designed for children, not hobby use. As much as this may be frustrating and there may be good reasons for TLG to support the 'abuse' of their system they are not a (...) (17 years ago, 5-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains // Wishlist —Benn Coifman

(...) Just off the top of my head, I have the following thoughts on a prospective new train system. Benn On the batteries: -I am concerned that the weight of batteries could limit long trains. So the battery weight will be just as important as it's (...) (17 years ago, 7-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains // Wishlist —David Laswell

(...) Why can't it be both? Imagine, if you will, a track system that's designed based around the 12v components, but with the ends of the rails being shaped to couple with the 9v/RC track instead. (17 years ago, 7-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains // Wishlist —Christopher Masi

(...) I've got a number of 4.5v/12v sleeper that have lost their clips (the little vertical pieces that click into the track), so Im' not wild about going back to that kind of track. If the design could be fixed, so the part that holds onto the (...) (17 years ago, 7-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains // Wishlist —Don Cox

(...) My point is that TLG should continue with the 9volt system until a new system is developed and available. Showing off our train layouts at train shows and telling visitors that it is discontinued for 2+ years will turn off the buying public (...) (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains // Wishlist —Jonathan Lopes

(...) Maybe (big 'maybe' of course) there is 2 years or so of stock left of current track and motors and all. They are still selling track in old dark grey afterall - quite a while after the color change has happened. This doesn't appear to help the (...) (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Remko Stift

Hi Bryan, A survey based on wish lists could help Holger and Steve communicate with TLC especially if the results of the survey not only show products which will make the Lego train fan happier but also products which will be profitable for TLC. (...) (17 years ago, 17-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Matthew J. Chiles

(...) Wow, great list, Remko. I would like to second all of these suggestions. Together they are relatively simple and easy to impliment, and they will work well for kids and adults. I really like the "assemble it yourself" metal track idea - great, (...) (17 years ago, 17-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Benn Coifman

(...) ... (...) Remko had a great idea about off-loading the "attaching metal strips to the rail" to the user. Too bad that ship has likely sailed. First, in defense of battery power, while a few folks have pointed to the powered rails and said, (...) (17 years ago, 18-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Bob Parker

(...) The topic of battery life and pulling power came up today - (URL) click here> for that thread. Hopefully it can address some of your concerns. (URL) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains, FTX) !

Re: The Future of Trains —Brian Davis

(...) Well, it surprises me... but then again, I've just heard folks debate it, not actually test it or try it out. Thanks! I use 2500 mAh NiMH in my NXTs and RCXs, and I've been happy with them, but an 8 hour run time pulling 20 cars is... well, (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Elroy Davis

(...) Any idea how much weight was being pulled? 20 flatcars could be lighter than 20 boxcars. That amount of run time with that many cars does sound promising though. -Elroy (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.trains, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Harvey Henkelman

(...) The truth is finally revealed (...) No matter how much 'AFOL input' there is, it will be the decision of the company in the end (of course) (...) Exclusively plastic track means reliance on batteries, there is no other way around it. And the (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Brian Davis

(...) Actually... that's kind of a good buisness model I'm told. (...) I did want to mention two points here. First, battery-powered motors don't have to be "underpowered". As an example, the PF XL motor or the NXT motors (several of us have twisted (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Thomas Main

(...) I wonder if this means a hiatus in selling trains this year and next or whether Lego will continue to sell the IR trains during the next two Christmas seasons (trains seem to be featured most at this time). -- Thomas Main (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —

Steve Witt

(...) The current IR trains will remain in the assortment for the time being. They will eventually be replaced by the new Power Function System as well. Steve (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Jordan Schwarz

(...) It does not make sense in strictly monetary terms for TLG to continue to produce a line that is not directly profitable. However, we have raised the point before that numerous intangible benefits arise from the 9V Train line. Community (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.trains) !

Re: The Future of Trains —Dave Sterling

(...) While this is a disappointment due to the significant investment in the 9V system I made over the past few years...I am very excited to see what direction TLG is going to take with the Power Function trains. I am very excited that they are (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Anthony Sava

At last we now know why our concerns over 9v trains were never on the original LEGO Ambassadors’ Official “Issues” List. I've known the writing was on the wall for a long time now, but even with that knowledge the blow wasn't any less hard to me. As (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Scott Lyttle

(...) Well, this is something of a blow to the LTC's doing shows. If the decision has been made to discontinue the line and work on a replacment, let us be proactive, and indicate the positives of the 9V system that should be worked into a new (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —John Gerlach

(...) Something that doesn't require *dozens* of batteries to have a display with a few operating trains for a weekend. (/cry/) Small size motors, for smaller MOCs. The existing 9volt train motor is a good size. Ability to have more than one motor (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Mike Petrucelli

(...) Let see key needs for a new system. The ability to plug it in. No seriously, they should use the new wireless power transfer technology that is starting to get some serious attention in Popular Mechanics and other such publications. Frankly if (...) (17 years ago, 1-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Todd Thuma

(...) Mike, Excellent idea! I have read similar stories in tech magazines about how we might never need to plug a cell phone in to power again. Laying it on the surface of counter top with the power sending device mounted inside or underneath could (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Mike Petrucelli

(...) Well the versions I have seen most recently are directly powering lamps and light fixtures and such. I don't know if that would be enough for a train motor. I doubt LEGO has that in the works too, but it would be nice. Reliance on batteries is (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Scott Wardlaw

Alright, I think that most of us could buy into a new system of trains, if the right conditions were met. Absolutely must have conditions: 1) Enough torque in each motor to pull at least 10 cars 2) Compact component(s) that do not inhibit creativity (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Jonathan Wilson

In order for any replacement for 9V to be acceptable to me (and to get my money) it must meet the following conditions: 1.Track must be 100% compatible with 9V track (as in, same size, same shape, same studs, same connections between track pieces (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —William Howard

(...) It would also be great if "on-track charging" was possible, like the racer track or the strips used to re-charge cars at Legolands (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Elroy Davis

(...) Well, automated/interactive track-side accessories and innovative track geometries are kind of pointless if I can't pull an actual train. (...) For me, the ability to pull long (10+ cars) heavy trains for at least 6 hours at a time with little (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Brian Davis

(...) The Medium PF motors is 4 studs wide by 6 studs long, and has a 6x2 plate portion on the bottom (no studs on top). The other motor is called the "XL PF Motor", which would hopefully imply that somebody within LEGO might have been *thinking* (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) More accurately, Li-Ion batteries, _unlike_ most other battery types, do age. NiCads wear out through use, or through improper partial charging, and have a moderate shelf discharge (depleting the charge while just sitting unused). NiMHs wear (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Tim David

(...) And presumably a "large" one too... Tim (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Abner Finley

Well, since it is Oct. 1, 2007 today. I have decided to write-off 2008 as a DEAD year for LEGO trains. The question now is when in 2009 is the 'new' system gonna be released or when will 'we' AFOL's see pictures, set numbers and prices etc. I have (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Scott Wardlaw

As a Senior Engineering Analyst, I understand facts, figures, and numbers. If a department reports low sales on something, that may indicate that a product of that department should be cut in order for the company as a whole to be profitable. (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Jonathan Wilson

The simple fact is that no matter what products are on the shelf or how good (or crap) the design is, trains that get their power from the track (ala 9V) will ALWAYS be more expensive than a matching train that takes battery power (rechargeable or (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Scott Lyttle

(...) Also, Add Consumer Products Safety Commission (CPSC) rules that anything using AC power means minimum age 7 on the box, and with Duplo going around age 5, that means a gap in trains from age 5 to 7. The new battery train has a lower age range (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) *coughBIONICLEcough* Ok, granted, it rarely involves face-to-face interaction on the same level as more AFOL-friendly themes, but it still counts. (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Adam Murtha

(...) Well thank you Lego. This is the final nail in the coffin. Changing the grey's and brown colours, killing the 9v trains. The least you could have done was keep up with the exchange rate on the Canadian dollar. No excuses like "There may be (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Daniel Aubin

(...) Being also a Canadian, I have many of the same gripes as you do towards LEGO. I remember a time not so long ago when the prices for Canadian Shop@Home were given in US$. When the CDN$ started going up, they changed their prices to CDN$ for our (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Todd Thuma

(...) Hey Adam, Will you sell me you 9v stuff? Todd (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Adam Murtha

(...) Ok well I'm not really OUT out. But out in terms of not buying new stuff, like the battery stuff, I passed on, since I had no interest in those kind of sets. If the new power system they are talking about is as bad as the battery system then I (...) (17 years ago, 4-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Tommy Armstrong

I have probably said this before but here goes again. I can think of few other sub-cultures that are as educated, creative (in an engineering way), and passionate as the LEGO sub-culture. I have constantly been amazed at the incredibly creative (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Duane Collicott

(...) I have to throw something in here... Tommy probably doesn't realize this (and I'm probably breaking some rule by telling him), but those of us up heah yonder Nawth sometimes use words like "y'all" in a condescending, rednecky way. But for (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: dnecks (was Re: The Future of Trains) —Rob Hendrix

(...) Are ya'll makin fun of us purebread (not imbred as you may suspect) good ole' country boys? Don't make me call up Roy D. Murcer to come whoop your ... :P -Rob FUT - o-t.fun (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Tommy Armstrong

(...) Yes, I am aware that "y'all" does have some connotations--but have decided that it is really the only politically correct, all encompassing, non-gender, non-racial, non-religious specfic pronoun that is available in the English language-at (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Duane Collicott

(...) If you go far enough north it isn't! They also use the other variant, youse guyses, as in, "You got da deep snow over to youse guyses place, eh?" to which the response would be, "Ya, sure, but we cleared da path to da sauna!" (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Steve Bliss

(...) :) And don't forget, 'sauna' is a three-syllable word. The 'u' is not silent! Steve (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Orion Pobursky

(...) Actually "guys" is a gender neutral term: (URL) definition 3 entry 3b -Orion (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) Writing programs or operating systems requires only three things. Knowledge, creativity, and time. The creativity clearly isn't an issue for the AFOL community, and any true hobbyist will find time when and where possible. Knowledge is the (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Rob Hendrix

Snip (...) So, what about taking another route and simply approach one of the many model railroad companies to see their interest in making something more like what THEY already make that *could* suit our needs? I'd love to see some unofficial brass (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Scott Lyttle

(...) Hm, I wonder if TLG would fight them on a patent/design methodology? That would be the first issue I see. However, on that note, what I would really like to see is some way to get just metal tracks that would fit over the plastic track. That (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Rob Hendrix

(...) An AFOL already made some headway on that one, way back in '05.. (URL) (17 years ago, 4-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —John Neal

(...) 1x8s instead of 2x8s, and spaced every other-- more prototypical that way. In any event, well done, Kenn! JOHN (17 years ago, 4-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) Doesn't look like it would work out as nicely. The connectors have two metal tabs on the bottom that appear to line up nicely with the studs that were cut off the 2x8 plate. Switch to a 1x8 plate and you'd have to cut away part of the base and (...) (17 years ago, 4-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Steve Bliss

(...) sleeper like Ken's modified 2x8 plate, bundle it with the 3rd party connectors and rail stock, and voila - hobbyist track kits! All things considered, this won't happen, for a lot of reasons. But an AFOL can dream... Steve (17 years ago, 4-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Reinhard "Ben" Beneke

(...) (SNIP) (...) Hi Steve I even would guess that a special sleeper plate with flat bottom (to float on studs beneath), with 242 studs on top and a kind of retaining clips to fix the metal rail would be an option for any "third-party producer". (...) (17 years ago, 5-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —John Neal

(...) Amen, Bruder! You and I are so in our thinking, Ben; as if only 1 stud apart;-D JOHN (17 years ago, 5-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Ben Fleskes

In lugnet.lego, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote: <snip> (...) I've looked at this and a few similar options. Wether or not BBB could achieve it at the $0.30 per piece range (preferably less) is a matter of quantity. I'd much prefer to be closer to $0.10 (...) (17 years ago, 5-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Reinhard "Ben" Beneke

(...) Hi Ben, I do not see so much need for a full system: the biggest need is for straight track and possibly new curve radius. The aftermarket will offer used 9V switches for the next 20 years. Some people will switch to the new battery trains. (...) (17 years ago, 7-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Tommy Armstrong

Again I may be missing something, and perhaps the future of LEGO's solution, as yet unknown looms as a possible roadblock--but why for example could not the various train clubs come up with a standard piece--get together--gurantee a certain number (...) (17 years ago, 7-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Benn Coifman

(...) I am sorry to hear the news, but I am not surprised. There are two things Lego can do to help the transition on those of us with a large investment in the 9v system. 1) the most consumable element in the 9v system is the train motor. But in (...) (17 years ago, 7-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) Talk to Ondrew Hartigan. He's already tracked down a company that can provide an replacement, even if they're not the company that manufactured the original units. (17 years ago, 7-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Mathew Clayson

(...) I did some research on this several years ago. At the time it was to pursue the idea of wider radii curves. But now it's of even more interest with the 9v track going away. I drew up several different ideas, and even contacted someone in a (...) (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Ted Michon

(...) Benn- In my experience keeping SCLTC trains running for the last 6 years (including a 10 week, 6 day a week show every year), what kills the train motors is erosion of metal contacts that pick up electricity from the rails. The contacts wear (...) (17 years ago, 10-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) Scott pretty much summed up my concern over this one. Get a commercial entity involved, and you're in danger of crossing the line for patent infringement. I doubt they'd ever go after Ondrew for his hand-modded track (indeed, since he uses (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Daniel Aubin

(...) Funny how we as AFOLs have a hard time thinking "outside the box". We automatically assume that new track geometry necessarily requires large sectional track pieces. The old 4.5-volt/12-volt system had separate ties (sleepers in Europe), track (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Niels Karsdorp

(...) Hehe, so I'm not alone on that one :-) (...) A guy in the Netherlands is just trying this, even before this message of discontinuation of the 9V line appeared. (...) About 5 years ago, I even started with Lego trains that were discontinued 23 (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Tommy Armstrong

(...) Now that is kind of what I was advocating in my post. The whole LEGO system is a modular system--why not come up with modular way of creating tracks and motor housings or whatever using perhaps the system as the glue and outside parts as part (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Elroy Davis

(...) I can only speak for myself, but part of the fun, for me at least, is the challenge of staying within the confines of the Lego product. If I wanted to build track, etc. from other items, or do my own molding, I'd work in N or HO scale (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) Well, simple straights and curves could easily be made with flexible rails and individual ties, but many of the specialized track pieces that seem to be of real interest to the hobby are complex crossovers and points. Those would require (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Kevin Wilson

(...) If this were to be done, and the target market was AFOLs, then it would make far more sense to not bother at all with the curved and straight track sections of different sizes, but just produce flextrack. Then you have a single small gang-able (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) As problematic as it is for long term track maintainence, and modifying track, it's actually a very simple solution to an ugly problem. Have you ever noticed how regular model railroaders link two sections of track together so power will be (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Ben Fleskes

(...) <snip> (...) Thank you for making a decision on this. Those 'in the know' have known this was a decision that needed to be made for a while now and I'm pleased that a decision and a course of direction are now set. Over the years I've done a (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Dave Sterling

(...) Ben, I couldn't agree more. We have to look at this not as the end of an era, but as a new beginning and a chance to embrace new technology. I am thoroughly excited about the possibilities that lie ahead for LEGO Trains. As you stated, this is (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —John Neal

(...) I'm going to take this comment and take the idea one step further (and use you as an example to boot:-) I agree with you, Ben, and more importantly, I believe that is how TLG sees themselves as well. Further, I believe TLG believes itself to (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Todd Thuma

(...) Ben, Well said! I couldn't have stated it any better. I too will wait, impatiently I might add, for the reveal on the new system. I trust that if I lack the creativity to make it work, I will do what I always do... Copy from the rest of you. (...) (17 years ago, 2-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Christopher Masi

(...) [...] (...) Well, I guess at least we now don't have to worry about if or when the 9v line will be discontinued. Like some of you, I am upset. I am upset that LEGO marketed the 9v line so poorly, but I also suspect that in the current (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Scott Wardlaw

Chris brings home a good point. 9V is what it is, probably because of the powered rails. No other LEGO Train system has that. However, I do beleive that one day very soon (if not already) battery technology will allow more power than can be safely (...) (17 years ago, 4-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Ben Fleskes

In lugnet.lego, Scott Wardlaw wrote: <snip> (...) <snip> Has anyone adapted two NXT units to drive a train yet? One NXT as a controller talks bluetooth to the other NXT that drives the train. The NXT that drives the train could be either attached to (...) (17 years ago, 5-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —Brian Davis

(...) Not exactly, that I know of, *yet*... The biggest problem in running a train would be hiding the NXT - I saw only one good solution to hiding the RCX in a boxcar, and the NXT is bigger, as are the motors. You could use an old motor (or even a (...) (17 years ago, 6-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) Oh, for shame, Brian. Letting me think up an option that you passed right over (and a really cool one at that). With the legacy converter cables, you could power the _track_ with an NXT. Hook the track up as if it was a motor, using the (...) (17 years ago, 6-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —Ross Crawford

(...) I believe the options being discussed were in relation to the use of non-metal track, which is all that will be produced by LEGO in the foreseeable future. ROSCO (17 years ago, 6-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —Brian Davis

(...) As Ross mentioned, I was focused more on the "future" of trains, and if it's going to be done in LEGO, it looks like it will be done without conductive track. (...) Absolutely, but you could do better. Run a single loop off a single output, (...) (17 years ago, 6-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) Fair enough, but clearly the idea has sparked some interest, so I'm sure I'll see it get put into use at some point. (...) The ports may be able to pour out power, as you say, but I'd say it's equally well established that large trains with (...) (17 years ago, 7-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —Brian Davis

(...) Stalled, the train motor pulls 950 mA, while the stall current of the NXT motor is a whopping 2 Amps. So a single NXT motor output should easily handle a twin-engine train loaded to the point where it stalls the engine(s)... there's the matter (...) (17 years ago, 7-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —David Laswell

(...) So it sounds like a single loop should be no problem under most situations, since I'm not sure I've heard of anyone running three motors on a single train (there's the same issue with how much amperage a power regulator can push). (...) It (...) (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —Brian Davis

(...) Philo kindly corrected me, pointing out that the NXT outputs are regulated down to 1 A, so you couldn't run a dual-truck train all the way to stall. You could still get a good bit of the way there, however. Does anyone know what the peak (...) (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —Philippe Hurbain

(...) Some precisions here: - NXT stall current is 2A but only for a short time: internal thermal protection will trip at a current much lower than that (exact value depends on temperature and overload duration). A practical value is about 1A - NXT (...) (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —Brian Davis

(...) Ah, thank you - so running two stalled train motors would exceed the NXT output, but running one train motor up to a stall conditions should be fine. Out of curiosity, along with the output limitations on the NXT (1 A) and RCX (500 mA), does (...) (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt)

Re: The Future of Trains —Philippe Hurbain

(...) The linear regulator inside is a 1.5A version if I remember well, but I may be wrong. Cross posted to lugnet.trains trying to get train guru opinion... Philo (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt, lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Bruce S. Chamberlain

(...) At BayLTC we usually run four train motors on one loop using stock Controller with a 1.2 amp wall wart. Bruce (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt, lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Ross Crawford

(...) The Australian LEGO wall wart is marked 10V @ 7VA on the secondary. I don't recall all the stuff I learnt about the relationship between VA and W, but that seems to me to indicate about 0.7A. I believe this generally reduces as load increases, (...) (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt, lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Philippe Hurbain

(...) You are right, the main limitation probably comes from wall wart... You are essentially right for the 0.7A current (though it is not hard limit, rather a safety one). Philo (17 years ago, 9-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, lugnet.robotics.nxt, lugnet.trains)

Re: The Future of Trains —Stefan Gustavson

On the positive side of things, the new battery trains run fine on my old blue track, and the new plastic-only track is a whole lot cheaper than the old electrified track. I also like that useful 4-way switch they introduced. Electrified track gives (...) (17 years ago, 3-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —Mat Forcum

Well I get back from a relaxing break and I am greeted with this announcement. I am sad of course, but I am not surprised. I have been slowly purchasing track, motors, and regulators in anticipation of this day and I know of many others who have (...) (17 years ago, 6-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)

Re: The Future of Trains —John P. Henderson

I apologize for the inability (both in time and mental stamina) to read this entire thread. But I feel the need to offer an easily-backwards compatible alternative to the power supplies thus far mentioned... No need to recharge underpowered (...) (17 years ago, 8-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego, FTX)

Re: The Future of Trains —Kirk Houser

(...) <snip> (...) One evening, way back in 1991, I was pushing a baby stroller thru Toys R Us. My son, Graham, 2 years old, in the stroller. We went over to the toy train area - because I was looking forward to the day in the futrure when we could (...) (17 years ago, 9-Oct-07, to lugnet.lego)