Subject:
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Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:29:40 GMT
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Viewed:
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413 times
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Fredrik Glöckner wrote:
>
> Now is the time for the American authorities to give a crystal clear
> message to the Israeli authorities that the violence and the occupation
> must end. I think that is the only short term solution for the conflict
> right now.
I'm more and more thinking that there will be no real solution to the
problem. A few solutions I could see which might work:
1. The US says, "**** you all, we're tired of this. You have 72 hours to
evacuate the middle east and then we are going to nuke the place"
2. The world says "Sorry Israelies/Jews. We feel bad that you were
persecuted in WWII but there's just no place for you in the world, get
out of there and leave the middle east to the Palestinians."
3. The works says "Sorry Palestinians. We feel bad that you have been
shoved aside by the Israelis but they have no where else to live."
#1 would probably start a global war.
#2 would probably result in Jewish terrorists, plus, it still would not
bring peace for a couple reasons:
- removed of the Israelis, the Palestinians would discover their own
internal conflicts
- removed of the Israeli threat, the Palestinian terrorists would find
some other target in order to maintain the power they have gained. This
ultimately is the problem which is most intractable. These folks have
little to gain by a peaceful rights based civilization.
#3 would not really work since it would just give the terrorists in the
rest of the world all the more reason to dump on the West.
The problem is that a significant number of people in the world consider
any existence of Israel as occupation, and thus justification for
"guerilla" tactics. Unfortunately, there is also no real way to convince
the Israelis to leave (even if one could convince oneself that this
would at all be fair, which I am far from being convinced it could be
fair). No matter how enlightened the Arab/Moslem leadership becomes, it
still would have little or no control over the masses.
There is also no fundamentally rights based nation in the area (there
are two basic reasons the US has been able to come to internal peace,
1st, the fundamentally rights based nation has been able to divest
itself [for the most part] from things like slavery, and 2nd, we
basically eliminated the natives [which of course almost totally
crumples our fundamental basis is rights - fortunately there's rather
few remaining natives to complain, and most of them either have no
power, or recognize that at this point, going along with the game is the
most cost effective way to live]).
I think Northern Ireland has some chance of escaping it's cycle of
violence, but in that case, the cultures are comparatively similar,
there is a basis in rights (though not as strong as the US), and the two
groups are probably closer in economic power.
Israel could improve the situation by:
1. being scrupulous about the rights of anyone who resides within Israel
itself, Jew or not.
2. being as scrupulous as possible of the rights of non-Israelis.
3. withdrawing all settlements outside the 1967 boundaries (while
retaining reasonable security presence until such a time as it is
demonstrated to be no longer necessary)
The problem that I see is that the Palestinian snipers and bombers will
never stop. The latest bombing of an Arab owned restaurant makes it
clear that the Palestinian's have absolutely no concern for anyone who
accepts Israel.
Frank
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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| (...) I’ll admit to being a little irked by this. What has brought about “peace” in NI is the realisation that violence could only get the terrorists groups so far. The IRA (and its Loyalist counterparts) has just as little regard for “rights” (...) (22 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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| (...) As far as I am aware the restaurant was actually Palestinian-Israeli owned. But that makes very little difference. It was still a very cruel act. The difference is that on the Palestinian side there is absolute desperation and some with (...) (22 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Conflict in the Middle East
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| Now is the time for the American authorities to give a crystal clear message to the Israeli authorities that the violence and the occupation must end. I think that is the only short term solution for the conflict right now. Fredrik (22 years ago, 31-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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