 | | Thinking Out Loud...
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Hey Y'all: In the wake of the enormous human tragedy of last Tuesday there is little that can be said to assuage the justified anger, sadness, bewilderment, and deep conflict that many of us are feeling. I think it's important to give into these (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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(...) Rudy rocks. They ought to draft him for another term. Most level headed politician we have. But I digress. :-) (...) Not a frivolous attack at all, IMHO. It's amazing how easy it is to ignore the actual answer to your question when you are so (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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(...) Yes or the press conferences with the New York mayor: Mayor: our first priority is to resuce and search for people Reporter 1: Whats the body count upto? Mayor: we're not interested in that, we're concerned about finding people Reporter 2: How (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Zogby Reuters poll
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Excerpted from the latest poll, completed on the 16th, reprinted without permission: (start) Respondents effectively differentiate between terrorists and either a specific ethnicity or religion as 84% of those surveyed consider the U.S. to be at war (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Yup, me too. (...) Yes, this is the difference. The US seems to want military action against known terrorists, even if bin Laden is just a suspect in this one case. I would suggest that the only immediate action that should be taken is to (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: depth of caring
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(...) Los Angeles had 2 drives sponsored by competing TV stations. $350,000 was raised by one. Over $1,000,000 was raised by the other. Not bad for a couple of anchors who made a simple phone call to get them started. -Dave (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: from the NYT via /.
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(...) Oooops! They have plugged it!! Didn't realise 'cos I had the cookie in my browser 8?( ROSCO (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: from the NYT via /.
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(...) Yeah, they have a fairly effective method of categorizing articles, and filtering posts, which makes it somewhat easier than some for finding interesting / useful stuff. (...) address, use (URL) found on /.!!) Dunno why they have rego if they (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | from the NYT via /.
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Thanks to Ross posting the Stallman link I did some nosing around /. and there is a lot of great stuff there! Here is a very thought provoking essay (URL) to the brits out there, keep reading past the bit about how and why the brits did what they (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This God thing...
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(...) I'd like to take a crack at this representing the Biblical Inerrancy crowd and have a little fun, too. I know what you're thinking: "You can't mix the two." Ha, and again I say, ha. (...) That'd be pretty hard, considering that the altar was (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) WHOOPS! Forgot things: Also, isn't it great that you DON'T have to agree with my view of faith? 8?) Oh, and you're welcome... Matt (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) Fox News Channel has been replaying the mass in its entirety since it happened...if you have access to them on satellite/cable, I'd check them late night tonight...also, try stations like EWTN and the like, I don't watch them, but it seems (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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(...) This is not all correct. In some jurisdictions, a given criminal act can result in different charges, based on the criminal's reason for the act. For example, If an assault is primarily motivated by the perpetrator's hate for people of the (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Seems a good summation from my POV. (...) No probs there either. I'd prefer not to discuss directions, as I have fairly limited knowledge of America's foreign policy. But I think it's fair to assume that someone's pretty annoyed with it right (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Also this piece by Richard Stallman: (URL) (who's never had his baggage searched at any airport, even when he declared slightly more than allowable value at customs 8?) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) As a Christian, I agree that if many so-called Christian leaders had their way we'd all be almost Amish. As I've said before, I believe it's because most Christians are guilt-motivated. They really don't know what to think and as such are (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Matthew Gerber writes: <snipped all but one line> (...) While I don't concur with some of your reasoning behind what you believe, I wanted to thank you for your "Prayer posting" and for the tribute page - both are (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This God thing...
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(...) I have heard others criticise Paul in a similar way, basically saying that his ranting is not necessarily representative of what Jesus would have preached... but that I suppose is as much interpretation as anything else. Which I think is the (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This God thing...
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(...) In the case of Mosaic Law, our letters record Christ himself declaring it irrelevant, so the authority has in fact settled it for those who accept that authority. Some things have in fact changed, and the majority of believers recognize it as (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The big lie
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From Forbes, which is much more libertarian than Fortune (which is why I subscribe to one and read the other on airplanes where it's free to me) (URL) I say I totally agree that we do not need changes in the Bill of Rights? Airport Security (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This God thing...
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(...) But does that resolution also indicate that certain aspects of Christianity must remain in force ("the new and everlasting covenant"), or might there be a point at which the body of believers can legitmately say "this or that is no longer (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jason J. Railton writes: <snip lots of mischaracterisation by Jason and myself> Let's try to see if we can find the common ground here. You and Ross agree with me and others that the terrorists who perpretrated this (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: depth of caring
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(...) This isn't quite as large-scale, but a Pittsburgh radio station held a fund raiser at a local stadium and took in somewhere over $180,000.00 in just 10 hours. I don't have a link, but they announced it on-air. Dave! (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This God thing...
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(...) From a practicing Christian perspective, there isn't any need to adhere to Mosaic Law because our New Testament letters clearly state that Jesus did away with the Old Covenant of sacrifices and that they needn't be practiced any longer. (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: depth of caring
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> The latest tally I have is 650,000.00 USD raised for the Red Cross in a media market of only 1 million, with little publicity other than on the stations themselves. (URL) anyone have tales (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This God thing...
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(...) But some (indeed, many) would also argue that the "ancient customs" you cite aren't appreciably any more ancient to modern times than the ancient customs practiced by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. That is, it's all pretty darned ancient, so (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Hmm... I think I'm slipping back and forth between Paul's case(1), so you're most likely correct about his consistency. I was speaking more in the abstract, conjecturing a case in which Candidate X ran under another party by falsely professing (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Yes. But there is no requirement to agree with the GOP platform in order to run as a GOP candidate. I haven't pored over Ron's speeches in the level of detail to be able to tell if he bit his tongue or actually came out and said "I don't (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This God thing...
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(...) and so on... I must admit these are pretty amusing. Well done Bruce. Just out of curiosity though, Christopher, have you got any like that that come from the New Testament? I mean, you could probably bait the fundamentalists with those OT(T) (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This God thing...
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(...) Chris: I can only give you my opinions as a Christian who doesn't believe in the inerrancy of scripture. Also, your questions refer to ancient customs practiced by an ancient people that have little pertinence to the modern practice of (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) I agree that if an LP member agrees with the tenets of the platform on which he is running, then he's under no conflict. If, however, he's (an abstract "he" rather than Paul) biting his tongue on major issues with which he might disagree (like (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This God thing...
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(...) Invite them over to a barbeque - Sacred Cow makes the best hamburger. (...) If she can fix computers, a lot. If you have to pick up her cell phone bill, minimal. (...) Wear a sign demanding that unclean women shun you. I bet it will be (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Well, I admit I am myself ambivalent about this. But consider this... (and know that since I am not Ron Paul I am speculating. But I HAVE pored over his website to see where he stands on stuff) The Republican party makes you sign no oath, and (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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(...) Is that the one where they left a Hoarse head in a bed of flowers? :-) (...) Indeed. I was listening to the radio for several hours That Day, and many of the stations were just carrying the TV network news. Amazing gaffes. Amazing resistance (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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(...) My dad forced me to see those movies. Dave! (my full and sincere apologies to Santosh for making a joke about his spelling, but that was too sweet an opportunity to miss!) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) But if you were going to run for office, under which party would you do it? It's fine (and appropriate) for individuals to support such political groups as are in line with the individual's views, but when one is running for office (in the (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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Larry Have you not seen the film "The Goadfather"? Parts I,III & IV, I believe ;-) Yes point noted about the spelling, thanks, and more appreciated that you understood what I meant. Incidentally, has anyone else noticed how rather dumb some news (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) I think that this is the stance I have been leaning towards the past year or so. I feel rather lonely in church these days as I no longer "see" as the majority of the congregation seems to. Blind faith ("dogma" I suppose) seems to work at (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Does God Exist? (was Re: Mercy? (was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer))
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(...) Might that be because you don't play? That's *usually* my reason for not winning, although once in a while (when the expected value (of the net present value of the win after taxes) >100% of the cost to play) it is because the gods don't like (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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(...) Yes, it's a term coined for a reason... I am ambivalent about the term. It has been misused at times but it does capture the sense that the crime is particularly senseless, that it's being carried out for reasons of hate rather than for (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Does God Exist? (was Re: Mercy? (was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer))
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(...) Yes indeed. Another way to approach it is to point out that we (life in general) weren't running around looking for a universe to populate and were lucky enough to find this one; we (again, life in general) arose within this universe because (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | This God thing...
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Hi all, There is a set of biblical questions that were written by someone and have been around the net a bit. They were written as a smart-assed foil for Christian belief. But surprisingly I haven't seen serious answers. So I'm reposting them below (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Does God Exist? (was Re: Mercy? (was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer))
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(...) You're not getting it. Maybe there were 10^37 (or whatever) universal incarnations that had nothing like us occur. That's fine. You're arguing that a probability that doesn't actually have any bearing on our likelihood, does. I'm sorry, but (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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(...) A crime is a criminal act regardless of who committed it, or their reason for doing such. There is no distinction between crime spurned by hate or crime spurned by love. Hate Crimes, I imagaine, is a term created by the media to dramatise an (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) Spot on. I have no beef with religion or any other dogma except when it obstructs progress. (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) Yeh, well, it's never for me so much as for the spectators. :D (...) My only search for common ground is to get the agreement that yes, belief in religion is a matter of faith and is therefore unprovable positively *or* negatively. My aim, if (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Sorry, that's not recorded history. It's a literary chronicle--"history" as we know it today was part of the Greco-Roman tradition, not the Judaeo-Christian one. That, and the synoptic gospels have significant problems innate to their (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Sorry, if God created everything, God created evil--at least, the capacity for it. Are you implying there are limits to the power of God? Also, good and evil are subjective concepts, arrived at by consensus--though in dogmatic (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) <snip> Excellent refutation. If Ian had been doing his homework reading what has been said here before maybe he wouldn't be posting essentially the same tired stuff all over again that we've all already heard. If people want to take comfort in (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The Origins Debate
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(...) It's not nearly so cranky as many of the others, but it's still largely based on anti-logic. Why can't it be the Hindu gods? Or why can't the Hare Krishnas be right? (...) But the physical state of the universe was quite different. We're in a (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) If you had been spending time reviewing past debates here you'd see that this question has been dealt with before. (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Does God Exist? (was Re: Mercy? (was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer))
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(...) God reserves the right to engineer events, but He makes sure to allow us to maintain our free will. Anyway it's God's universe; He can do what He wants with it. (...) You have that choice. The tree of knowledge was placed in the Garden of Eden (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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I neglected to respond to this... (...) God did not create evil. Evil is indeed the absence of good, just as cold is the absence of heat, and centrifugal force is the absence of centripetal force. --Ian (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Okay. But this is what I say about the faith issue: God wants us to follow Him by faith. If you have absolute proof, you remove the faith option. (...) Okay. But the universe had to be initiated by something, and if it wasn't God, what was it? (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) See (URL) for a start. Incidentally, Jesus was God in the flesh, and we have the recorded history right in the Bible. <snip> (...) Possibly so. But then the hijackers would be making the accusations. God loves even them so much that He does (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Refer to the post I just put up: (URL) There is more, if you're interested. (...) You'll get your wish, eventually. When we die, we all face God. And at the end of the age, God will descend from Heaven in glory to set up His kingdom on earth. (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Does God Exist? (was Re: Mercy? (was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer))
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(...) So, here's how I like to see it. If God started everything off, what if He let it play out - what if He wasn't sticking His oar in every five minutes? What if we really do have free will, for a start? Who wants to live in a universe where you (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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(...) Well, yes, you're right about that. Hearing about hate crimes just leaves me sooo frustrated - among other feelings. Julie (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Does God Exist? (was Re: Mercy? (was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer))
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(...) Oh dear. Let me start over. God is good, and there is no evil or sin in him. God created everything, so therefore everything reflects God's goodness in some way. People doing good things don't do it because of their innate goodness; they (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) That's childish. I could summarise your position as "lets kill lots of people somewhere far away - that'll make everything better", but that would be equally insulting. I certainly don't recommend the US try to march in everywhere to 'right (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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(...) I am not sure I agree. I am somewhat scared by the sudden uptick in recruitment, some of the people joining seem rather, well, brutish. I think the last thing we need is some ignoramous on the front lines shooting up a village of innocents (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Tales of Stupidity (Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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(...) Sigh indeed. My only contribution to this string is to change the subject line. I do NOT see this sort of thing as misplaced zeal. Misplaced zeal is trying to donate blood after you already heard that they don't need any. This is stupidity and (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Some of us would rather see you expend your energy in reviewing what came before rather than rehashing. Everything you've said has been said before in some previous incarnation of this debate, so don't think you're adding any new value or (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) So what is your plan then? Ask nicely? What if asking causes Pakistan to topple and the Taliban to launch a war? (...) So you are so sure that you know what to fix that you see debate as "needless"? My, I wish I was that certain. I see debate (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Yes, I re-read that and realised it wasn't a good description of my belief. Perhaps closer: "...he instantly loses all his followers, *from his point of view*, because they no longer have to make any choice to follow him." (...) I agree with (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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Those boneheads that are commiting hatefule acts against innocent citizens should be punished by forcing them to do a tour of duty. Let *them* be in the front lines if/when we have any ground battles. Julie (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Ack! No, don't tell me that Reality TV has provided *anything* pithy! (...) And, remember, if God created all and is omnipotent, God also created evil and possesses the power to destroy it at any time. Evil is not merely the absence of good. (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Colby from Survivor 2. (...) Mark said: The Kindness Of Man. Please, give credit where credit is due, and don't shortchange the good people. You said: All goodness derives from God, but this is a technicality in this instance :). So what did (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Stupid Tales of Misplaced Zeal
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It begins: (URL) *sigh* Not only wrong for attacking a fellow American, but too ignorant even to know who the target of his hate was. Not, of course, that the perpetrator cared. :( I did some shopping last night at the nearby Indo-Pak grocery, and (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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This debate is going nowhere, and no one's opinion is going to change here. But you say there is convincing evidence that there is god, and yet I have seen any. Let me put my opinion this way. I will believe that there is a god when he shows (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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I'll try to address both Adam's and Ross's posts at the same time. (...) Exactly. I believe that too. As I mentioned in my other post, I can put my hands on a huge amount of evidence for the existence of God - all circumstantial, and none of it 100% (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Great! My prayer worked! You reconsidered! (...) Sorry to hear that. Hopefully, we can accommodate you. (By the way, I'm Protestant, so I may share some of your concerns with Catholicism.) (...) LOL. Who said that? (...) All religions are (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) True. This assertion is based on faith more than fact. (To clarify, the following is one of Jeff's paragraphs, not mine; and I addressed it in my previous post.) (...) Additionally, I'm Protestant, so I too look with skepticism at some of the (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) No, we just put a spin on it to make it look like we do. (...) Yep, apparently that's what it now is. (...) -Dave (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) No, I make the suggestion that Koresh and his followers were fanatics. You don't have to be a terrorist to be fanatical. I'm pointing out that misguided religious folk make excellent fanatics. Give people what they want, and they will follow (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) I never claimed it was a good idea. I'm just pointing out that no good ideas have spung from this. We've proven in the past that quick surgical strikes slow the problem down, but don't stop it simply because zealots are willing to use their (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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Hi Ross. I would have thought if there was any conclusive evidence for the existence of god that the christian belief wouldn't crumble, but be elevated to new heights of wisdom and logic. The statement that if god exists he, is beyond our (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Replace the word "Palestinian" with the word "Israeli" and you have the recipe for an eternal conflict. The cycle must be broken. Right now it seems that the Palestinian answer is to kill also those enraged family and friends. (...) So is (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) C'mon, you have it all wrong!!! We don't go around doing bad things. We are the "good guys." And anyway, the U.S. Government co-signed it so that makes it okay... ...its "US" (U.S.?) or "THEM", right? -- Hop-Frog (who sips his Ruby Ridge over (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rooting out nests of snakes and destroying them
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(...) This is REALLY well stated! It all seems so simple that I think it eludes people how difficult it can be to actually step out of our own subjectivity and into a greater, more universal truth with others. <3 -- Hop-Frog (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) You don't specifically state this, but it seems the suggestion is that Koresh was a terrorist. You do know that that's incorrect, don't you? And further, that he (and his) was(were) victimized by the US people -- rather than the other way (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP SPAM statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) Exactly! -- Hop-Frog (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | 911 (was re: My God...my truth...my pain...)
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Kirby: Thanks for sharing. I found it very interesting. "One" of my first thoughts at seeing the planes flying into the WTC was to think "Fight Club." What happened on 911 was horribly elegant enough to prompt some very wierd speculations on my (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) And given that metaphor I fail to see why it's a good idea. The need for vengeance will wear thin, and reality will set in. I insist that given a possibly impossible task, we should look for longer-lasting alternatives to war. And a lot of (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) Actually, I think the notion of ownership of real estate is corrupt not only because we can't possibly track it back to an original "fair" owner and then trace it forward to who ought to own it (for the most part), but also because I think (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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Hi Adam, and greetings from Australia! I don't believe in god. But for many years I thought I did, and came to realise that following god *must* be based on faith. As soon as any conclusive eveidence for his existence shows up, the whole christian (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) It sounds like you are assuming that politial party membership is by nature mutually exclusive of other party membership. It might be that way by law (I really have no idea) but it shouldn't be. I agree with some of the stances that each of (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 10 Cops found alive (and the garbage that has to stop!!!)
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I prob should have directed it to here... (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) It's a nice idea, but since this is a 'War on Terrorism' and terrorist keep popping up where they aren't wanted, it's time to bear down for an extended game of 'Whack a Mole'. (tounge in check, but an interesting visual for me) (...) Well, (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) One innocent Palestinian killed + their enraged family and friends + decades of occupation = indefinite hatred and revenge. The same equation may apply for any victim in an unjust situation. The keyword is innocent. (...) See equation above. (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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I have reconsidered, and I conclude that I feel I need to say more. I rarely have a chance to debate religion, as I come from a large Catholic family, and I'm the only one who doesn't attend church, and no one will talk about religion around me, (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: LP statement on terrorist attacks
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(...) I'm not sure either, but I don't think he has any credibility in claiming that he's just as Libertarian (capital L) as ever; if he were, he surely wouldn't have joined the GOP. It's analogous to a certain former GOP member who's now (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) When you make that non-falsifiable assertion, you are presumably implying that We Cannot Know His Ineffable Plan, and therefore we must assume that everything will work out for Good. However, if We Cannot Know His Plan, then we certainly can't (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) You're welcome. (...) Sorry, I tried to cram too much information into too few words :). I meant to say that if God had prevented the attack, we wouldn't have appreciated its sheer horrific magnitude, since we wouldn't have lived through it. (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Coming together to help those affected by the attack is a good thing. It fosters a humble, generous spirit. (...) The response would probably not have been as dramatic or as widespread. Sometimes it takes a shattering tragedy to shock people (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) You forget that the World Trade Center has a capacity of 50,000. For whatever reason - they were not at work yet, they were able to evacuate, or they were rescued - 45,000 people were not killed. (...) Mercy in a different sense. If the plane (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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Thank you for explaining in further detail that statement. Although I'm not sure what you mean by "We wouldn't have the perspective of knowing what came next. The accusation might potentially arise because people would not know the true magnitude of (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) But God may have another reason. He may want to use these tragedies to cause people to search for Him. He may also want to warn America against future possible terrorist attacks, which may be even worse than this was. If we are alerted to this (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) We wouldn't have the perspective of knowing what came next. The accusation might potentially arise because people would not know the true magnitude of what was prevented. (...) God is not always obvious about how He intervenes. The evidence we (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Agreed. However, when at war you can not check the beliefs and thoughts of every soldier you bomb. The same is true for the citizens of the enemy country that can be harmed by your actions. There are times in which killing a few innocent (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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