 | | TLG investigation 1st answers —Jeroen Ottens
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| | | Hi everybody, Thanks (again) for your overwhelming responses. I have had over 100 responses within 4 days and still counting... A lot of questions have been asked, most of them I can't answer unfortunately. All questions regarding comments to be (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —David Blomberg
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| | | | | Hi Jeroen- I'm a parent. My main focus in purchasing Legos has been to purchase sets for my son. His sets span Town, Adventurers, Wild West, UFOs. He saves his allowance (for up to half a year) to purchase sets on his own, or he receives them for (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Mark Benz
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| | | | | | Dave, I agree with you completely. Wonderful post. Mark (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jesse Long
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| | | | | | Mark Benz wrote in message <36CDC9BB.ED3E6867@u...le.com>... (...) Can you guys snip the content if all you're going to do is tack on a "me too" please? No one likes to download an 8Kb "me too." Thanks, Jesse ___...___ Jesse The Jolly Jingoist (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | (...) Jeroen, I think this (lugnet.general) is a good place. If it starts taking up too much of your time to read this general group, however, or if other people at LEGO Futura would like to join in or follow along and really turn this into an (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jason Miles
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| | | | | (...) Lego may develop for kids, not adults, but Lego still spent the time, money, and other resources to make us Lego Maniacs when we were kids. It doesn't seem to make much sense to give up on a valued customer just because they reach a certain (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Tamyra Teed
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| | | | | | <snipped a bunch of stuff> From the below.. you mention one thing I don't agree with... <more snipped> (...) I don't believe that to be true in the least.. if I had more purchasing power than an adult.. I'd have a BSB and SES.. and 20 or 30 of each (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Fredrik Glöckner
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| | | | | (...) For a lot of people, this is true. A lot of people seem to complain about the lack of basic bricks, and also the use of decorated/specialized bricks that are only good for very special uses. However, some people also think that many old sets (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Eric Brok
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| | | | | | Just want add one perspective to the dumbing-down debate. To my preference, not all toys *should* appeal to *all* kids (let alone adults). Kids have different talents. This means some talented 7-year olds may be able to build the Technic Space (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | (...) Or the good ones (ie, master lovers of the brick) all retired. But I suspect marketing pressure (particularly the push to shorter time-to-market, shorter product cycles, more products in market, and (oh, yeah!) the push to appeal to (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | (...) I wonder what effect this has on the designers who are still there. The saddest thing of all would be to see a great designer quit in frustration and be replaced by an average designer who is more interested in designing sets which please the (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Matthew Bates
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| | | | | (...) Don't forget, almost every single AFOL is a fan because they played with Lego when they were a kid. The stunning success of Mindstorms suggests that Lego aimed at adults (unintentionally in this case) will be very successful. Adults need to (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Uwe Ritzmann
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| | | | | Hi Jeroen, (...) [snip] (...) There is not that big a difference between kids and adults as you or your market research department might think, IMHO. (...) So what's that supposed to mean? The human race develops by thousands of years. IMHO kids are (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | (...) I know you won't be able to provide numbers to us, but I'd be curious to see how the newer Jr-ish style of sets sell in comparison to the older sets which were, unarguably, of better quality. As for "kids have developed as well" - if by that (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jesse Long
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| | | | | | | Mike Stanley wrote in message ... (...) Now there's a scientific study waiting to happen: can monkeys put together lego sets if given the instructions? Jesse ___...___ Jesse The Jolly Jingoist Looking for answers? Read the rec.toys.lego FAQ! (URL) (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | | | | | (...) I'd be curious to see what would happen, given an infinite amount of monkeys, with only Town Jr. sets, if they could produce a diarama of all of Shakespeare's works. The Air Force could even donate a few, since they're retiring their Space (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jesse Long
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| | | | | | | | Sproaticus wrote in message <36CDCE31.DC36231D@g...es.com>... (...) After further consideration, I think that exposing monkeys to Town Jr. would fall under cruelty to animals. Jesse ___...___ Jesse The Jolly Jingoist Looking for answers? Read the (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | | (...) Ah, but you've BOUGHT other MT sets - 2 5571s at least. Granted, they were on clearance, but TLG still got paid for them. And every MT set you buy for parts STILL gets money to TLG. So I would think you would be FOR MT sets, if for nothing (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | (...) Well, sure, given TLG's current anti-builder/anti-AFOL stance on parts packs and bulk orders, I recognize that MT sets are sometimes good for parts. I'm much rather just buy the parts, though. I agree wholeheartedly with what you said in (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Duane Hess
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| | | | | (...) I don't collect Model Team, so this does not help me. I am a Space/Town junky so this would not be a good direction for me. (...) I think it would be a good thing to re-release old sets, but I won't hold my breath. I can't see the logistics of (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Mark Benz
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| | | | | | Hi Duane, Someone once said: It is a wise man that knows when the gorilla of life has eaten all of his bananas, It is a fool who expects to be left the peels. Such is life in the late 90's WRT nintendo. Mark (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Alex Wetmore
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| | | | | Jeroen Ottens <ottens@get2net.dk> wrote in message news:01be5bf5$c3413b...@ottens... (...) through (...) good (...) I haven't bought any MT sets, even when I've seen great deals (like 5591 for $80ish at Zany Brainy). I like the idea of MT, but would (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —James Brown
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| | | | | (...) I think that would be great! I really hope that this semi-official discussion can lead to something more official - even just an official statement that AFOL's _exist_ would be light years ahead of anything to-date. (...) We understand that, (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Matthew Bates
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| | | | | | (...) a (...) Actually, that's a good point, I am not just an AFOL, I am very much an ADVOCATE of LEGO, so ignoring the fact that I spend $1000's on LEGO for myself, I also... 1. Buy it for my sons, they have Primo, Duplo and Toolo and now some (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jeff Stembel
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| | | | | (...) I'm not a collector, but I buy older sets because of the fantastic models they have, especially compared to much of the current line. Re-release of older sets is not as big on our lists as new sets with the same quality as the '80s line-up. I (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jim Wissner
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| | | | | Hello all, Re: Model Team/Technic Love (and frequently buy) both of them. Re: old set re-releases No, I don't like the newer sets as much as I like the older sets. But there are many things for which I prefer older to newer, not just Lego. For (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Matthew Bates
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| | | | | | | (...) I think you might be mistaking 'bitterness' for a pent up desire for many people here to express their feelings to Lego, and someone just opened a crack in the door. Do you expect us to sit here on our hands and not say anything that might be (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jim Wissner
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| | | | | | | | | (...) enemies (...) Of course I don't expect that. I stated "bitterness in tone". What I meant was that some of this frustration with TLG, much of which - please make no mistake - is clearly justified, could come across better if it were phrased in (...) (26 years ago, 19-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, whether we come across as all sweetness and nice or as a bunch of crazed lunatics, the pessimist in me thinks it will have the same effect - little to none. In fact, I'm so confident in my pessimism that I'd be willing to bet a dozen (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | No bet unless you're offering odds. I'd take it at 12 to 1, though. (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, I might put up 12 to your 1 but I couldn't put up 144 to your 12. Well, I could, but that would leave me with too few on the off chance that I lost, which I wouldn't, but still. (26 years ago, 23-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I don't have 12 myself so that's what I meant... It would just be an ordinary silver one, though, not the special silver that John Neal gave me, that came in a jewelry case. (...) (26 years ago, 23-Feb-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Kim Toll
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| | | | | | | | <preach> I agree here and wanted to comment on the same. Most responses have been polite and constructive, but several have been rather cruel. Jeroen has taken on a huge task here. Seeing the flavor of some of these comments could give you an idea (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | (...) Employed - yes. Healthy - not at the moment. Yes, Lego is a toy. But it isn't JUST anything. I don't spend thousands of dollars each year on things that aren't important to me. So yeah, since I've seen it decline quality-wise in the relatively (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | | | | Mike Stanley skrev i meddelandet ... (...) Mike, don't forget - for You, the _building_ is the thing, for kids, _playing_ is the greater part. OK, my oldest boy (11), really liked to put 8880 (Supercar) together, and the alternate model too. It took (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) But Anders, if the *playing* is the important part, then why don't we just buy pre-built, ready-to-go toys for our kids? They're sturdier, usually; cheaper, just about always; have more functionality, without a doubt. If my kids want to play (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Cindy Salwen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) For my children, playing and building are totally intertwined. While they are building with legos, or creating a big "setup" with playmobil (1), they talk constantly about what they are planning to do when they finish and how much fun it will (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Playing and building (Was: TLG investigation 1st answers) —Jacob Sparre Andersen
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| | | | | | | | | | Anders Isaksson (isaksson.etuna@REMO...tninet.se) wrote: (...) And Anders Isaksson replied: (...) It is my experience that both building and playing is important (and it seems to be most fun when you play the minifigs are building). [...] (...) So (...) (26 years ago, 31-Mar-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jesse Long
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| | | | | | | | Mike Stanley wrote in message ... (...) Amen. Unfortunately, the economy is too good for poor business practices to be punished too much. Jesse ___...___ Jesse The Jolly Jingoist Looking for answers? Read the rec.toys.lego FAQ! (URL) in Deja News! (...) (26 years ago, 23-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Right. BUT, to work the car analogy a bit more: Both Chrysler and Ford are bringing out new models that recapture some of what the older models had. The Prowler is a huge flashback to the hotrods of the 50s. The PT Cruiser harks back to prewar (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | | | Amen, Larry! Scott Sanburn (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Gregor Benedikt Rochow
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| | | | | | | (...) this (...) Besides these retro-models (which, as far as Lego goes, would actually be something like MT models with the Hobby-Model spoked wheels; Technic vehicles w/8860 tires, square pistons, and no flexible tubes; or plastic-railed trains - (...) (26 years ago, 23-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jim Wissner
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| | | | | | (...) this (...) Fair enough. You make a good point. I knew (well, suspected) somehow or another that the car anology wouldn't hold up, but my point is that I personally think it may be better to look forward than look back. To me the nostalgic (...) (26 years ago, 23-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Not true!!!!! If you're an adult and you like LEGO, you're an AFOL. That is ALL it means. We must NOT be exclusionary. I in no way meant to imply that because you disagree with me you're not. Really. Please do keep posting as time permits. (...) (26 years ago, 23-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Tom McDonald
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| | | | | (...) <snip> (...) Thanks for listening. I realize that you might not get anywhere with this back at work, but I definitely appreciate the effort. I have been watching a bit and decided it was time to chime in. (...) I have a question about this: if (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Richard Dee
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| | | | | | On Sat, 20 Feb 1999 02:46:13 GMT, Tom McDonald uttered the following profundities... (...) An MT set. Say that again. That is what a set with many large, preformed, specialised pieces is! Empty! Uninspiring, lacking in design and function. (Not (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jeroen Ottens
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| | | | | Hi everybody, It seems I have forgotten one point on the list: - AFOL's spend their money on auctions instead of TLG products. Please remember, I am only a designer at Futura. I am not a high placed marketing guy. It will take me loads of effort to (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | (...) I think a statement like that could be read the wrong way out of context. AFOLs in general do spend a large portion of their LEGO budgets on new TLG retail products, but a growing percentage are resorting to spending money in fan-to-fan (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jeroen Ottens
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| | | | | | | | Todd Lehman <lehman@javanet.com> wrote in article <snip> (...) numbers (...) older (...) the (...) appeal (...) and (...) Maybe I don't have to add the fifth point at all. It seems to me that if Lego would provide a bulk piece ordering service, (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | (...) That is probably the case, yes, so long as increasing the set design level meant producing things that adults actually take a widespread liking to. Designing sets that adults enjoy doesn't necessarily mean designing things specifically for (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Mark Tarrabain
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yes, yes, yes! I had been griping about this very thing just a few weeks ago on here! I was beginning to think I was alone in that regard. Thanks for speaking up. (wow... that's two things that we've agreed on in one week! This is getting (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Tom McDonald
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| | | | | | | (...) But not entirely. Some AFOL's might participate in auctions to be theme complete, but others also do it for the parts. Some parts are no longer available at all or in the color I want. (...) It sounds like you work where I do :) We have two (...) (26 years ago, 21-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Justin Kopp
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Another reason is the one that gets me into and acution. Auctions are the only way I can buy that Alpha-1 Rocket Base that was discontinued when I *started* collecting, but Saw in my Catalogs and wanted...or even to get, say the old shell (...) (26 years ago, 21-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Jason Miles
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Yes, this is what I was trying to get at in my request for rereleasing old sets. Because some of us, although fans for years, if not decades, *still* missed some of the sets we really wanted. This is not living in the past, this is simply (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —James Seibert
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) this (...) special (...) replacement (...) instructions (...) because I (...) I believe that passage best reflects the attitude of many AFOL's. I could certainly live with those conditions because I could have access to parts that have been (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Matthew Verdier
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| | | | | | | | Tom McDonald wrote in message ... (...) I missed the original post where Jeroen seems to have said this. I have bought 3 or 4 sets in auctions, and perhaps over two hundred bought from stores or SAH directly. Jeroen, if you think expanding parts (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Matthew Bates
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| | | | | | (...) I have 100's of Lego sets, only about 5% came from auctions/private sales and some of those were from people who were clearing out old stock from shops. I have run a few auctions myself, but only for the purpose of purchasing more Lego! Matt (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Richard Dee
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| | | | | [This followup was posted to lugnet.general and a copy was sent to the cited author.] (...) Hello! Introductions and my story first.....(apologies in advance, too, as I tend to have a very disjointed writing style...) I, too, am an AFOL. My first (...) (26 years ago, 20-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —David Till
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| | | | | | (...) From 1986 until 1996 I bought, or had bought for me one copy of each technic set available in shops. Occasionally I would also obtain other 'interesting' sets, so I would put my annual spending in the 500-1000 pounds range, and I am still in (...) (26 years ago, 25-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | | (...) 100? HA! I need 500-100 for one project alone, to do it justice. Thing is, that will never happen, so the project will never be 100% complete. (...) Yes, more survey cards is DEFINITELY a good idea. (26 years ago, 25-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Jeroen, Please read this. You might be surprised by it. —Greg Bevington
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| | | | | (...) pretty much a kid, and I would like to see old sets brought back, and bulk orders made available. I mean, I know lots of kids who would love the old sets brought back, and bulk ordering. If you think that kids would rather have flashy sets (...) (26 years ago, 21-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Josh Spaulding
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| | | | (...) I can't find fault with either of those statements, but I must point out that developing a product for kids does not require "dumbing it down." Let's use some examples. The Star Wars movies and merchandise were not generally "dumbed down," yet (...) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Josh Spaulding
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| | | | oops. (...) BETTER. I meant that the smaller pieces are BETTER in this example. Josh Spaulding (URL) (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: TLG investigation 1st answers —Steve Bliss
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| | | | (...) I'd disagree, sort of. A free-standing 1x2x5 brick is stronger than a stack of 1x2x1 bricks. But a 1x20x5 wall is better when built from 1xnx1 bricks than 1x2x5 bricks. Steve (26 years ago, 22-Feb-99, to lugnet.general)
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