Subject:
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Re: Reagan... not exactly libertarian, but close
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:22:44 GMT
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Viewed:
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474 times
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Chris, (from Scott, who should really be working rather than staying on off
topic) Anyway,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Weeks" <clweeks@eclipse.net>
To: <lugnet.off-topic.debate@lugnet.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: Reagan... not exactly libertarian, but close
> Hi Scott
Greetings, from left-liberal Ann Arbor,
> > Well, telling which schools to send your kids too is very limiting to
> > parents,
>
> Right, but it's the norm for those who don't want to spend double duty on • their
> children's education. I'm all in favor of school vouchers (or complete
> privatization, for that matter). But what are you getting at here?
Hmm.... I am just in support of vouchers, or privatization, that is all.
> Well, it seems like teachers might, and schools, districts, state boards • of
> education, etc might mandate some things but I doubt you can really make a • case
> for a clear teaching of some abnormal morality.
Not officially, but knowing what I do know of the education system, My
fiancess's mom is part of the MEA and the NEA, so I do read their letters
and the like... and I try really hard not to get mad and throw them away,
much like the UFCW letter I get because I have to be a part of it, I work in
Michigan and Meijer.
> regardless if it is
> > Christian or not. I know many parents at my church who have to deprogram • the
> > kids from the rot of all the various agendas in the school, self-esteem,
> > environmentalist wacko programming, etc.
>
> Cool, like what and how?
Well, like the debate on what kind of bags, how cars kill the enivronment,
etc. It is out there, and in some schools.
> I mean, I know that kids end up believing all kinds
> of things that are wrong about all kinds of issues. Some of those are • going to
> be political in nature, eco-environmental, etc. Do you have specific • things in
> mind? I like the long-term substitute biology teacher who told the • students
> both that turtles shed their shells annually and that things (as in all • thing
> that can) burn because they contain sugar.
Hmm... see above, but it is out there. And I have encountered many people in
my various kinds of work that do have to do these kinds of things. I just
say parents should have a choice. This is one of those reasons.
> > Left-liberals want the government to control many things, such as if I • can
> > own a gun or not, what cars I can / can't drive, what games I can play • (I.E.
> > Joesph Liberman, D - Conn?)
>
> You know Scott, that when I claim further down that Republicans favor • school
> prayer, you make a point of saying that those are only some of them. But • here,
> you claim that liberals (you seem to mean all of them, or liberals in • general)
> favor game play control based on one man's stance. That's not quite fair • is
> it?
Well, look at the Democratic party, and look at the positions that they
offer. I have rarely seen anyleft-liberal come out in favor of any
conservative position. If there ever is a case for one mind party, they are
it. Others that don't agree with them, they get kicked out. Most liberals do
support the majority of this. They look at government as the solution for
everything. While some conservatives, and the Republican party, do have a
lot of varied views on things.
Look at the debate Al Gore and Bill Bradley have had on health care. All the
dividing line was how socialistic they wanted it. Same solution, different
amounts of money.
> Some schools allow religious student orgs. Also, some ban Christian • groups
> meeting because they'd be forced to allow (for instance) Satanist student
> groups too, and they don't even want to go there.
Well, like I said, there should be school chioce, so we can avoid things
like this.
> > also adovate giving out free condoms and drug needles. Clearly, the
> Excuse me? I would like a reference to your source of information. Can • you
> actually point to a single public school that gives out free needles to • the
> student body? Even if you can produce such, does that really suggest to • you
> that this is a general attitude of public schools? It isn't.
Sorry, I was thinking of something else. Condom distribution is prevelant
(Beecher high school, Durand high school, Davidson high school (All in Flint
MI)) The drug needle thing was the government. Ah, same difference. Anyway,
> > government endorses some behavior and condemns others. I don't think
> > mandatory school prayer is lawful, but a moment of silence (Not every day • in
> > a class, but as in a assembly) would be OK.
>
> Well, I think it would be 'OK' I guess too. But why bother? Why not just • get
> on to school work?
I was referring to things like assemblies and stuff, but it really doesn't
matter. The ACLU gets into fits about anything like this, however.
> > > That limits my ability (right?) to send my children to public schools • devoid of
> > > religious content. So clearly,
> > > conservatives are, in some measure, anti-freedom.
> >
> > That is funny. Conservatives, in general, want the government to get out • of
> > our lives.
>
> Which conservative leaders would you point to for support of that claim? • Why
> then didn't the federal government shrink ten-fold and get rid of tons of
> invasive laws when there was a conservative congress?
Well, most do, inacting it is another story. The Republican Congress tried,
Clinton vetoed most of it, and then the whole government shutdown thing
(Which, I celebrated it, BTW). They are gun shy, and politically dead. Most
of it had to deal with Clinton, the Dems in congress, etc. I don't think
much can be done. I figure the less they do, the better off we are. Can you
imagine what might of happened if Clinton got a Democratic Congress all
these years. Stagnation in Washington is good, if it is destructive to the
people. I figure the only way things will really change id there is a
massive upheavel or a collapse of some kind.
This is one of the issues I do have with the Libertarian party, I guess. If
the Republicans got blasted for the miniscule changes they wanted (Remember
the Medicare 3% increase a year getting to the point of where Republicans
were being accuse of trying to kill old people?) How on earth can any
Libertarian run, and not expect to be blasted? There are too many people on
the government doles that would never vote for a Libertarian, or a
Republican for that matter.
> That's not what I said. I said that conservatives want to impinge on my
> freedom in different ways. But for the record, I have the leeway to favor • the
> conservative side of things in our current political climate.
What freedom?
> Well, a quick trip the RNC web site, to correct my misunderstanding and • learn
> about the 'real' conservative agenda yielded...squat.
Well, I don't know if you know this or not, Chris, but the conservative
plateform is not exclusively Republican. There is an actual Conservative
party in some parts. But there is some stuff on there, it should be better
organized, however.
> They don't say what
> they're in favor of. All they do is bash Al Gore. Maybe I'll go look for
> congressional bill records and see what kind of legislation Republican • Senators
> and Representatives have introduced.
Some have good records, some don't. I think some Republicans should join the
Democrats and vice versa. But some things are the way they are.
> > As a side issue, Larry, how does the
> > Libertarian (Should it be capitolized?) party view age laws, such as
> > drinking, smoking,. etc? How about child pornography? I am curious on • these
> > issues.
>
> Me too. I think the problem is determining when people are old enough to • have
> full rights of man. And it's kind of impossible to set fair guidlines. • _I_
> basically think that when someone demonstrates that they understand those
> rights, by demanding them, they should get them. Some people would do it • at
> twelve and others would never really do it.
Yes, indeed. My hope would be to have people act in a responsible matter on
things, and hopefully, things would be better.
> > It depends on what you are looking at, what levels, etc. It is a little • more
> > complicated than simple science, folks!
>
> Well, that's basically what my comment was meant to say to the original
poster.
Yes.
Scott S.
Scott E. Sanburn
Systems Administrator-Affiliated Engineers -> http://www.aeieng.com
LEGO Page -> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/3372/legoindex.html
Coming Soon: The Sanburn Systems Company
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Message has 2 Replies:
Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Reagan... not exactly libertarian, but close
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| Hi Scott, (...) Right, but it's the norm for those who don't want to spend double duty on their children's education. I'm all in favor of school vouchers (or complete privatization, for that matter). But what are you getting at here? (...) Well, it (...) (25 years ago, 3-Apr-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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