Subject:
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Re: Rückkehr der Raumnazin
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:31:10 GMT
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Viewed:
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1702 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Kevin Heckel wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Allister McLaren wrote:
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this post>. I wanted to see if I could render the ‘theme’ in a less
offensive, more comical way, with a more accomplished model. The aim is not
to stir up controversy, but to see if the space nazis can be done without
stirring it up.
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Dude. Nazism and Nazi symbols are offensive to Germans. Period.
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What about the Jewish community? One might think they’d be offended, too.
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Of course. But some Jews have dealt with the Nazis by mocking them (Mel) and
even some Jews find those Jews offensive...
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But
points for looking out for people’s feelings. Let’s see, who else could be
offended? I imagine Asians might be offended, because it reminds them of how
the symbol was stolen from them.
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<shrug> There is nothing new under the sun. Are we sure that “they” invented
it, or did “they” “steal” it from some previous source?
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What is
so hard to understand about that? Your little science project is doomed
from the beginning. I mean, shesh-- imagery like that is illegal in a
Democratic State, for crying out loud. What’s funny about that?
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See, it’s meta-bigotry. It’s funny because it’s so ridiculously over-the-top.
And the ridiculousness is what you laugh at. If not, then it really is
bigotry.
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That’s my point. Yeah, you and I as non-Germans and non-Jews can “see” the
humor because we are removed from it. Our laughter, however, can so easily be
perceived as calloused insensitivity.
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<snip>
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Well it’s not a new idea to make a joke out of nazism. Mel Brooks
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He’s a Jew. Different issues there.
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What are your issues there?
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Mine? None. I’m only pointing out that victims of crimes had “earned” the
right to mock, whatever, their persecutors. I don’t really like Mel Brooks’
Nazi humor (though I enjoy a lot of his humor normally) but at the same time I
am not about to condemn it-- it is not my place to do so.
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and Hogan’s
Heroes spring to mind.
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That show is about forty years old.
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And that was before we invented “Political Correctness”, or...?
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Well, yes. “Political Correctness” is such a loaded term. I agree that people
should be sensitive to others’ feelings; it’s just that the whole concept has
been taken to an absurd extreme.
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I personally don’t think any subject should be out of
bounds for humour, but it depends a lot on the execution. I’m hoping I
carried it off well enough, but that’s ultimately up to the audience.
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Not for any German audience I suspect. Just as only blacks can call each
other the N-word, and Jews have “permission” to joke about Jews, I would
guess that only a German would have any hope of making light of that
subject, and certainly not an outsider from Aussie.
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Again with zee Germans. Frankly, if I were to look out for someone’s
feelings, it’d be the someone who doesn’t have grandparents because of what
that symbol represents, rather than someone who’s simply embarrassed by their
grandparents. Do you have any examples of Germans making Nazi jokes?
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Not in the slightest. And judging from Jo-Jo’s remarks elsewhere, there doesn’t
seem to be many if any at all. It’s like laughing at someone’s misery: what
kind of jerk finds that funny? Well, a jerk who is a jerk.
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Off the
top of my head, I can think of a few non-Germans who are able to make light
of the Holocaust and Nazis. Mel Brooks (well, that was cheating, he was
already mentioned!), Sarah Silverman
(Jewish American),
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Again, Jewish (implicit permission). She is painful to consider. Here is a
bright, intelligent women who is just so offensive. I don’t subscribe to the
“I’ll joke about taboos and stereotypes and bigotry and racist until we all find
it funny together” theory. What ends up happening is that when she gay-bashes,
for example, she only reinforces intolerance and bigotry in her audience
rather than helps to break those barriers down.
Not familiar with him.
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Certainly an Australian can horn in on this game!
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Maybe if their last name is Goldberg;-)
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I categorically can’t find it funny because I know that it offends
Germans.
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Well, it’s not like you’re a stranger to
offending people. And I for
one thought you were pretty funny in that thread.
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You thought I was being offensive? How?
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Hey, just for kicks-- go post your MOC on 1000Steine and see what happens.
If that idea gives you pause, then maybe there are some deeper issues to
which you are oblivious and should have addressed before you embarked on
your build.
JOHN
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Hey, just for kicks-- let’s put all the Germans in ovens so there aren’t any
left to be offended by this MOC. (See? Meta!)
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Careful. William Bennett was tarred by Liberals for less than that!
JOHN
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Rückkehr der Raumnazin
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| (...) Tel me John, did you perceive (URL) this post> as mocking? Just asking, because it's a similar situation - lar condemning my post because he thought I was mocking you. My point is, I don't see any point in a third person weighing in on a (...) (19 years ago, 22-Dec-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: Rückkehr der Raumnazin
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| (...) I think I need to make my original question more explicit. Of all the many reasons to object to a swastika spaceship, I'd like to know why you chose "because it offends Germans". Why didn't you once mention the feelings of Jews? Is it because (...) (19 years ago, 22-Dec-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Rückkehr der Raumnazin
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| (...) What about the Jewish community? One might think they'd be offended, too. But points for looking out for people's feelings. Let's see, who else could be offended? I imagine Asians might be offended, because it reminds them of how the symbol (...) (19 years ago, 22-Dec-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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