Subject:
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Re: Rückkehr der Raumnazin
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 2 Jan 2006 21:03:51 GMT
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Viewed:
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3059 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Ross Crawford wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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You make this sound like an everyday occurrence. We have done this to
some, but the fact is that their religion doesn’t really enter in to it,
but rather their actions.
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So why do you call them
“islamo-fascists”, and not “alleged terrorists”????
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I was speaking specifically about the people who are incarcerated. The
purpose of their detention is what they’ve done, not what they believe
(although it is the motivation behind what they did).
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But that’s the whole problem. The only evidence we have that these detainees
are terrorists is, basically, Dubya’s assertion that they’re terrorists.
They’re denied all due process and access to lawyers, and in many cases
they’ve been held for years without ever being charged.
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Enemy combatants are treated differently than US citizens. This has always been
the case.
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One could as easily
decry that policy as Christo-fascist; since its architects are Christian, and
numerous high-profile examples exist in which leading policy apologists
infuse their rhetoric with Christian invective. Sure, they might not be
real Christians, but I’d say the same of the so-called Islamo-fascists, who
are not real Muslims.
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Well, if you had Christian leaders invecting from the pulpit to incarcerate
Muslims, I might be inclined to agree (which is the analogy to Mullahs issuing
their fatwahs of Jihad). Were that the case, the outcry of other Christians
would be swift and deafening. Where is the universal uproar of Muslims over the
reign of terror being perpetrated in the name of their religion? Where is the
outcry in the Muslim world over the
completely
outrageous statements of that nutjob otherwise known as the president of Iran?
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It’s no good to assert that the detainees are bad people deserving of
detention unless they are subject to due process. Instead, Dubya is scooping
up (and in not a few cases allowing to be tortured) people who happen to be
Muslim but who have committed no other terrorist act.
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As far as you know. Again, “enemy combatants” are treated differently. Not my
call, not even Bush’s, but that is the law, however convenient for Bush and
unfortunate for the no-doubt perfectly innocent people being detained.
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Before anyone calls for my evidence that these people are innocent, I remind
the reader that Dictator Dubya has by fiat refused to allow any evidence to
be aired or any defense to be mounted. However, I recall a time when people
were presumed innocent until proven guilty.
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Again, they haven’t the same rights, Dave!
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When Dubya repealed the presumption of innocence, the terrorists won, because
Dubya killed a cornerstone of American culture and history.
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Do you have a specific cite of this being the doing of Bush? What you are
failing to take into account is the newness of this type of enemy-- it isn’t at
all clear as to how we should be treating them.
JOHN
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Rückkehr der Raumnazin
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| (...) In fact, this has only "always" been the case since Dubya created the term "enemy combatant" out of the firmament. It didn't exist prior to his declaration of permanent war on terror, at least not as a supra-legal designator for "people whom (...) (19 years ago, 3-Jan-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Rückkehr der Raumnazin
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| (...) But that's the whole problem. The only evidence we have that these detainees are terrorists is, basically, Dubya's assertion that they're terrorists. They're denied all due process and access to lawyers, and in many cases they've been held for (...) (19 years ago, 2-Jan-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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