Subject:
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Re: Rückkehr der Raumnazin
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 2 Jan 2006 05:49:15 GMT
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Viewed:
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3070 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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So, you are saying that our current government has brought devastation to
our country and the world, is that correct?
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Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes! Mostly economic and social destuction,
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Economic destruction? All I’ve seen is 2 of the most horrific economic
disasters strike during Bush’s tenure (9-11 and Katrina, neither of which can
be attributed to the Bush Administration), and yet our economy still grows.
To what economic indicators are you referring?
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First of all, you gotta think globally for a minute. Believe it or not, there’s
a whole world out there beyond our borders, and our actions have consequences
that can be felt throughout. But now that you mention OUR economy, to what
indicators are you referring? Cause in the America I live in, the cost of
EVERYTHING has risen sharply, while the average median income has dropped for
the fourth year in a row! Every day another corporation drops its retirement or
benfits package, lays off another thousand workers, or moves overseas! Housing
has become unaffordable for the working class: in a recent survey, there wasn’t
a SINGLE county nationwide where a full-time minimun wage worker could afford
rent on a 1-bedroom apartment! The stockmarket is flat for the entirety of the
Bush presidency. Labor unions have been broken up. The new jobs created are
low-wage, low-skill, dead-end jobs with little room for advancement, while
skilled labor and tech jobs pour overseas. The richest get tax breaks while the
floor drops out from underneath the poor and middle-classes.
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As far as social destruction, I agree that our society is in serious moral
decline, but I don’t think our government’s policies are to blame.
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Moral decline,in comparison to what? Colonial times when we slaughtered the
Natives while we stole their land? The lawlessness of the wild west expansion?
The southern slave institution? Institutional racism and the Jim Crowe laws?
The hedonistic debauchery of the teens and 20’s? the desparation of the 30’s?
Lynchings? Segregation? Cold War paranoia? Drug culture of the 60’s through
present? When exactly was this Golden Age of moral superiority that you’re
longing for?
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The price of freedom isn’t cheap. Isn’t Iraq better off now than under SH?
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In a recent suvey of Iranian youth, they we’re asked what they thought of their
government, and almost everyone strongly dissapproved of how the country was run
socially, politically, and economically. When asked how they would react if the
United States were to invade, almost all said that they would rally around their
president, country, and flag and fight to the death. One young man put it this
way: It’s better to have our crazies running the country than their crazies. I
think this statement speaks volumes to the current Iraqi situation. SH was a
bad man, but at least the people knew what to expect. If they behaved in a
certain mannor, they could live a somewhat peaceful existance. Saddam wasn’t
subtle. Everyone knew what pleased and displeased him, and you could stay off
his radar by following his rules. Now Iraq is total chaos. No one is safe.
There are a thousand different ways to wake up dead. There’s the low-level
civil war between the Sunnis, Kurds, and Shiites, the “Coalition of the
Willing”, Saddam Loyalists, American Armed Forces, independant contractors,
mercenaries, kidnappers, youth street gangs, and international terrorists, all
fighting eachother with different goals and agendas, in the middle of large
urban and suburban centers. Saddam was a law-and-order type of guy. None of
this kind of violence took place under his rule. Since the invasion, Iraq has
been flooded with Afghani heroin and opium, causing a huge drug crisis where
there were no illegal drugs before. The education and healthcare systems have
been decimated, where they were some of the best in the Middle-East under
Saddam. Baghdad has no running water, and electricity for 2-4 hours a day. We
have bombed them into a 3rd world country. Iraq is undergoing a braindrain,
where most of the highly educated intellectuals in the fields of science,
engineering, medicine, and law are leaving the country to find work elsewhere,
and this resource could take a generation or more to return. Iraqi refugees are
pouring into its neighboring countries to avoid the violence. If they were
better off, why would they leave? before the invasion, the leading cause of
death in Iraq was cancer. Now it is violence. The depleted uranium that we use
in our “bunkerbuster” bombs and armor-piercing bullets has aerosolized, and
permeates the water, ground, and air. It has led to a drastic increase of
stillbirths, horrible deformities, and cancer, including in our soldiers and
their children, and has a half-life of thousands of years. We have literally
poisoned the earth in Iraq. I don’t think that they are better off. But I
don’t know. Let’s ask them.
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We are unpopular in the world due to our
destructive political end economic practices, not because they are envious
of the MTV.The world is in the process of constructing an economic trade
system that is independant of the American one, with the strenthening Euro
likely to replace the Dollar as the standard measurement of trade.
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I wish them good luck. I’ll still trust good ol’ supply and demand to set
prices.
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Supply and demand would be a great system, if that’s how we did it. We often
make the importation of foriegn goods either illegal, or place tariffs on them
so high, that they can’t compete with domestic prices, while we subsidize the
price of our own exports making them unnaturally low for foriegn markets. The
Canadian timber industry produces wood and paper a 1/3 the cost of domestic
goods, but we illegally charge them tariffs so high that they can’t compete in
the U.S. market. This goes against our own agreement, NAFTA, and Canada has
successfully sued our government twice, yet we still refuse to relax the trade
barriers. If it were only supply and demand, we would have legal access to
Canadian pharmacuticals as well. Our government subsidized sugar, wheat, and
other agri-goods are dumped in Latin America for prices so low, that it has made
their traditional lifestyle of farming imposible. Some farmers turn to illegal
drug production because it’s the only crops they can sell for enough to live on.
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in the name of 911 and security has to do with grabbing as much of a
dwindling oil supply as we can,
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All the while ignoring ANWR? I don’t buy it.
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ANWR has enough proven oil reserves to keep our country going for 2 years. Not
much of a contingincy plan.
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while in the process showing the world that
we are the sole surviving superpower with a badass military, and we’re not
afraid to use it!
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The world already knows that-- there are just some Islamo-Facists who only
understand absolute power who are too blinkered to grasp this short of an
in-home demonstration.
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The men who carried out 911 all died, hard to exact revenge on them, none of
them were from Iraq or Afghanistan, and most were from Saudi Arabia, our
hand-holding pals. No in-home demonstration there.
I faithfully look foreward to your analysis. If you question any of my facts,
feel free to do your own research. I’m sure you have access to the same
resources as me.
-Mike
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Rückkehr der Raumnazin
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| (...) Economic destruction? All I've seen is 2 of the most horrific economic disasters strike during Bush's tenure (9-11 and Katrina, neither of which can be attributed to the Bush Administration), and yet our economy still grows. To what economic (...) (19 years ago, 2-Jan-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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