Subject:
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Re: Break Out the Cristal (trickle-down economics explained with champagne!)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:42:34 GMT
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Viewed:
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376 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
>
> > > Our faith in our exceptionalism creates the spirit and will to engage in such
> > > behaviors as well. You know, it's not that we think we are perfect. We know
> > > we are not, but we are constantly striving to become it. It's not that we
> > > think we are better than anyone else, it's just that when we look at everyone
> > > else, we say "we can do better". That spirit stems directly from our love of
> > > freedom and liberty.
> > >
> > > It may sometimes result in obtuseness, but many times it produces countless
> > > blessings upon the world.
> >
> >
> > What? You think America the Great is the only country that 'produces
> > countless blessings upon the world'?
>
> Did I say that? You are obfuscating and being argumentative.
No, your very posts show me that "America the Great" is what matters, and
other ideas be damned.
> > You act as if America is the second coming, John!
>
> I don't even know what that is supposed to mean.
>
> > We, all of us, are equal nations (or at least should be), and
> > the second you start thinking that you're better than the rest is the second
> > that there are second class citizens that are allowed to suffer so you can
> > live better.
>
> I reject your moral equivelance of nations.
Now look who's misreading--I never said "morally equivelance" at all. Would
you please read and understand what is being said. In so many posts I have
stated that SH is a bad man. In so many posts I have stated that we have to
work on a way of changing the circumstances of the Iraqi people. You are
the one that says 'It's only the American Way' that is right.
> The second we think we are better
> is the second that there are second class citizens that are allowed *to be free
> from their repressive, immoral governments*.
I like how you inferred that I was specifically talking about Iraq here,
when, indeed, as posted, I was talking about all the 'third world' countries
that provide cheap labour for the items you buy on a regular basis.
> How else do you muster the
> authority to act *in any way* in the world? What justification did the UN use
> to intervene in Kuwait in '91? Consensus! I reject consensus as a basis of
> acting in the world.
And I like how you use the UN intervention of Kuwait and the subsequent UN
sanctioned resolutions against Iraq to justify your war today, even though
you find that the UN is made up of "corrupt, self-interested governments",
and that the UN, *in no way shape and form* authorized this particular war.
> Right and wrong are not subject to the whims of corrupt,
> self-interested governments. Morality is *not* relative. The US government >is
> *not* equal to the government of China. We *do* have the moral high ground,
> because we love freedom and liberty. And you are left to *defend* evil >regimes
THe US gov't is not 'morally' equal to *any other* gov't. What makes you
take the stance that the country, the United States of America is better
than the country China, or better example, Canada. Do you think that
America is better than Canada, John? Do you? In almost every poll I have
ever read, Canada is ranking higher than your country in almost every single
point--better living conditions, better education, cleaner cities... We
were the best place to live for numerous years, and just recently dropped
down (gasp!) to 3. Should we Canadians start weilding our 'superiority' and
say to you, "Clean up your act!"
> such as the ones in NK and Iraq if one self-interested country on the security
> council vetoes interdiction. I don't care how many self-interest driven
> governments object to us-- it doesn't make their positions morally right.
No it doesnt--but then again, your position isn't morally credible at this
time either, so where does that get us?
> It's really funny when you and others all agree that Saddam is evil, but are
> unwilling to *confront* the evil. It's all disingenuous lip service, because
> in the final analysis, you are not willing to put your proverbial money where
> your mouth is. Inspections-- what a pathetic joke. You do not love freedom,
> because you are not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to obtain and keep
> it.
Again John, anti-war *is not* pro SH. Read, will you? I will point out
(again) that Canada has the same (or bettter if you want to be pro-american,
I'm going to start talking Canada up) rights and freedoms that your country
does, and we got there without *one* shot being fired. How did that happen?
> >
> > The very minute you raise yourself above the rest, you can ignore all sorts
> > of atrocities elsewhare because 'it's only them'.
>
> What are you talking about? If you raise your moral standards, you suddenly
> *can't* ignore atrocities elsewhere.
You are blatantly ignoring the atrocities your own 'morally superior' gov't
sanctions an/or commits. Which part of that didn't you understand? You get
all worked up because Iraq broke Geneva conventions, but crickets were heard
chirping form you when your own side did the same. This has nothing to do
with "Moral Relativism". We can, and should, help those that are being
oppressed, those that are being wrongfully persecuted. This is not the issue.
The issue is you and others like you who keep on spreading your own agenda
under the guise of "moral superiority and say "We condemn that" when "We" do
the same.
>
> > So again, America is not God's gift to the world.
>
> As far as you know. Or did God tell you that personally?
I didn't read about America being Gods gift to the world in the Bible John,
or do you have a different version than I do? Not that personal pot-shots
are great 'n all...
>
> JOHN
Dave K
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