 | | Re: Religion and Science
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(...) Okay, but that other guy over there claims that Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu (Christianity has such a hard time of explaining Christ is a manifestation/incarnation of God and Hinduism has little problem with the same concept) which is pretty (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Veracity, the historical record, and supernatural events
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: An impressive chapter in the perspective of LAR. Certainly filled with valid and compelling points for all to consider. I had to think hard before replying in fact. Again, well written and indeed (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: mirror mirror on the wall, who's the stubbornest of them all?
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(...) Not really. And not you particularly either, although perhaps others know better than I... :-) It was meant as a reminder to us all that we should examine our positions and conclusions carefully. Name-slogging probably doesn't help. But it (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) That's precisely the position I'm arguing against. Faith is not a blind irrational element. Faith is based on the seen and experienced. If I have confidence in an object - say a chair - to support my weight, I have faith in it. The faith is (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) Simply because I draw metaphors, doesn't mean I find them comparable. Easy there. I'm drawing motivational analogies, not making comparisons. -Jon (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | mirror mirror on the wall, who's the stubbornest of them all?
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(...) Touché indeed. But before you celebrate too much, I submit Jon was talking about himself when he made the statement... :-) ++Lar (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Religion and Science
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You're missing a point here - WHO SAYS Jesus was God Incarnate. Why, you do, and the Bible (a conflicting, HUMAN AUTHORED document). Why do you believe the Bible is the True Word, and others are not? Other beliefs have been around FAR longer than (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Touché. -John (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My ideas - Space, Castle, etc.
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(...) Ditto - all 3 of our cats were rescued. Doesn't stop me from being a Near Carnivore, though ;-) -- | Tom Stangl, Technical Support Netscape Communications Corp | Please do not associate my personal views with my employer (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Problem of Evil
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(...) Yes, thank you - a good debater I am not. But that was my point. Basing your Faith on some conflicting book written 2K years ago BY MEN is just silly, IN MY OPINION. And NOTHING anyone says will convince me otherwise. Isaac Asimov could have (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My ideas - Space, Castle, etc.
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There are also debates on whether the oil is FROM plants and animals. The argument is that the oil reserves VASTLY outweigh the possible biomass from the past. There is a good argument for petroleum simply FORMING from various chemicals, just like (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Veracity, the historical record, and supernatural events
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OK, I want to clarify a bit more here in hopes that this will be the end. (...) n.b. I'm no historian, and I'd love to have LFB chime in here, this is his area of specialty. Nothing that you did not personally witness can be "proven" to have (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Religion and Science
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(...) Yes;-) The message is most important, because it finally reveals God's true nature. And although the following may sound circular, I think it makes sense. What makes Jesus so special and that He alone has the final revelation from God? The (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) I doubt that the discussion will ever truly end, although the thread certainly will.... Thank-you for the perspective that you provided, as I suspect that although you only present it in illustrative form, that it actually provides a framework (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My ideas - Space, Castle, etc.
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(...) So, by your logic, it's ok for me to buy the jacket if I feel bad about it afterward? If not, then why do you keep buying LEGO if you truly feel bad about the ABS being a petroleum product? Is it ok or not? If you really sit down and think (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Problem of Evil
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Let me take it from another perspective. YHWH, or God, really IS a God of war, but he's more than that. I see Jesus as the completer of the picture of God. That is, revelation is progressive. If you look at God's relationship with Noah, then (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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Perhaps we should consider providing .debate as only an overspill bin for debates from other groups. This would prevent, to some extent, those who wish, at a whim, to create noisy and unproductive debates the ability to do so? I doubt it this will (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Problem of Evil
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(...) Gee, I think this was Tom's point -- at least in a a way. See? Your perspective is that the bible is a kind of source of authority, yet you are able to pick and choose elements from it because it is an "imperfect" source. With all kinds of (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My ideas - Space, Castle, etc.
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(...) It may have more to do with the environmental destruction wrought by Dutch Royal Shell, mostly in the Arctic and in Africa. I'm more concerned about their activities from a human standpoint, but like most extractive industries, it's their (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My ideas - Space, Castle, etc.
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What does being a vegetarian have to do with feeling gulity about Shell sets and ABS plastic? The oil those two use is from creatures that died several hundred thousand years before humans even walked the planet. BTW, hemp makes TERRIBLE clothing, (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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(...) I have had free education - pre-school to PhD. (...) Note quite, but that is the aim. (...) I suppose you'd call it "Welfare". (...) Nope. But nobody should be allowed to starve. (...) I don't want it. (...) I don't need it. (...) I don't need (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Religion and Science
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(...) I'd ask what's more important, the message or the messanger? Is it the message that Jesus of Nazereth brought that is important, or who you claim him to be? Is the message only of importance because of who it is from, or because there is (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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(...) What if they can’t get a job? What if 50 million Latin Americans flood your labour market? (...) Sure... and the rich are not really rich when compared to the super rich. Scott A (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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(...) If by "intrusion", you mean things like my doctor making sure I'm not abusing my kids - no. Scott A (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Religion and Science
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(...) I suppose the turnabout is fair, so I'll ask it: What evidence, if witnessed by or expressed to you (the 'you' being a believing Christian), would lead you to conclude that Christianity is incorrect, and that there is in fact no God (or at (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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(...) As much as you want? (...) No matter the cost? At maximum quality? (...) I don't know what that means. (...) All kinds? (...) It is not. In your system, do you have the right to multiple wives? Prostitution? Recreational drugs? What about (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Religion and Science
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(...) Jesus of (...) for (...) I (...) would (...) What (...) it (...) You weren't asking me, but this is a great question. I think direct observation of a miraculous occurance that I couldn't explain in any other way more easily would cause me to (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Religion and Science
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(...) Science is not in the business of proving anything. Proof is not a stage in the scientific life cycle. Scientists don't even believe in proof. Proof isn't what we're looking for. Increasing evidence and plausibility are the goals. This may (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) That's the long disputed point-- and to that end, how about the question "If God can do anything, can he make a problem so difficult that HE can't solve it?" Basically, the Christian idea of free will says to me that God allowed for the (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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For closure, in order to make the historical record complete. In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jon Kozan writes: <snip> a very long and point by point "refutation" Jon, you missed the point. The real question here, which you didn't address, is "is this (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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(...) They would get a job. They would buy cheap land (at ~$200 per acre!). They would buy startup supplies including axe and loom. What's so hard about that? Most of the so-called poor in America have it great (when compared to the poor in truly (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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(...) Assuming those are true (that things are "free"), Dunno. Are there any downsides or hidden costs? I of course hold there are no utopias per se. But suppose, readdressing my question if we could, that I could give you a system that delivered (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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In my sytem I have the right to free education. In my sytem I have the right to free healthcare. In my sytem I have the right the right to social provision. In my system a starving man has the right to food. Is that not utopia? Scott A (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Intellects and proper venue for "cyclic debates"
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(...) Damn spall checker - Intelligence. Your interpretation of my lazy spell checking conveys the same point. (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Knowing that it would happen, but creating Lucifer anyways, he in effect DID cause it. Just as he has caused all sin in history, as he created everyone knowing exactly what would happen. (...) Sure he did - he created us, knowing we would (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) In a way, it's because time itself doesn't really exist "at the beginning." All the rules are off before, I believe, the first microsecond after the bang or poof or whatever-- our understanding of things Science can only take us so far, (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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trimmed lugnet.admin.general and lugnet.off-topic.debate from the FUT, added lugnet.general (...) I like verdigris as a color name but given that TLC has introduced several colors now with the saturation value turned way down (blue-gray and (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.general)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Absitively. I couldn't agree much more, although it *is* rather sobering sometimes. (...) Verdigris? Didn't he do the soundtrack to 'Chariots of Fire?' I actually like that a lot. So what do we call the LoM grey-pink-- rouxigris? :) (I still (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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(...) I think so. Let's get more hypothetical, then (is it possible to be more or less hypothetical? I think so)... Suppose that I could provide you a society in which non governmental systems were providing everything, EVERYTHING, you wanted to (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Intellects and proper venue for "cyclic debates"
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(...) "inelegance" ?? Do you mean in the anorak sense? I had always thought that the thoughts produced by those I regard as truly awesome intellects tend to be, on average (not always, of course) be *more* elegant than normal. Thoughts that when you (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Hmm. I suppose it depends on what you mean by average. I assume you are just rating myself, and others, against your own above average intellect? Perception of intellect is an area which always exasperates me. I find that people mix these (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: New LEGO factory inaugurated
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(...) Well I guess these are all good arguments for TLG to move their production facilities elsewhere. Though this may be sour for the people who will be layed off at the Enfield plant this is just another fine example of how globalisation takes its (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Religion and Science
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(...) And yet, Bruce, if I said to you "there is a God who exists as revealed by Jesus of Nazareth", what would be your first response? Maybe you'd say, "that's nice for you, now run along and play" (oops, that's what *Lar* would say). But what if (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The Problem of Evil
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(...) I think the understanding of God changed and matured through time in the OT. The early Israelites were polytheistic; they had to learn that there was only one god YHWH. YHWH was perceived as a war God. This is definitely inconsistent (in my (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) If someone has a completely adequate understanding of theology, and remains agnostic or atheist, IMHO it is pointless to continually badger them about the reality of God. Ultimately belief relies on faith, an irrational attribute that should (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The Problem of Evil
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|
Mr. Marchetti: Concerning the problem of evil, you provided an outline of two arguments and then concluded: "But the point is: the Christian god cannot exist in the manner in which most Christians envision him to exist. Whatever he may or may not (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Fair enough. (...) Dealt with that below. Not equivalent. (...) God didn't create Satan. He created Lucifer, who was His Archangel. Lucifer coveted God's position and wanted to be like God and receive man's worship. A third of God's angels (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) Doesn't this depend on what you mean by "fit"? You can consider science and religion (or even the universe and God) to be like yin and yang, intertwined but clearly separable. Or you can think that science and religion are like colours of the (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Not at all. The OT served it's purpose - according to Galations it's purpose was to lead us to Christ. The Law served as a vehicle to make manifest the condition of man. Jeremiah 31:31-34 opens the door for the NT which will supersede the Old. (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) Maybe you should stick to hanging about school crossings or drug rehab clinics. So non-believers are comparable to the drug-addicted and the immature, that's a fairly biased analogy. What if we compared Christians to schizophrenics, who hear (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) I merely pointed out why people do what they do. I can't believe that by sharing motivations that I'm proselytizing. I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me. And, I, in no way, am telling someone even "how to" be a Christian. Help me out, how (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Religion and Science
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(...) All the religious relics of the middle-ages. Eastern Orthodoxism. Protestantism. Reformation. Warrior knights. Pacifists. Rise and disappearance of saints. Mary cults. Seems to change a lot. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Religion and Science
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(...) I didn't say change with the times - rather that it doesn't stagnate. I guess you could define stagnation as you will, but there are many levels of learnign and debate within the Protestant and Catholic (to name but 2) parts of Christianity (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) Every belief system is man-made, so it surprises me that the followers of any system can believe one is more valid than another. Maybe the Christian god is off setting up franchises on the other side of the universe. Weren't the gospels (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) And THIS is where you should have ended the reply... (...) This makes me sick to my stomach, and furious, and I'm sure there are Christians who would agree with me. Shoving YOUR religion down someone else's throat when they don't want it is (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Religion and Science
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(...) Not intended against religion, though I'm intrigued that you read it that way. I was referring more to adherence to rote, like obeying the teachings of Aristotle in science without examining and verifying them. (...) That doesn't seem very (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Vemon (was: critical thinking)
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(...) Actually, here I was mixing vehement and vemonous. :-) (...) Odd - no one bothered you to reply, yet you did. So who's leaving who alone? I actually like talking about what interests me - I though you did too. I didn't hijack the thread (that (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Critical Thinking
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes: (big snip) (...) Perhaps this is the crux of the divergence. You're saying that science focuses on reality - I agree, but how we each define "reality" is different. Reality for you is only the realm (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) Vehement. So leave me alone already. This forum is not the time and not the place to prosetylise, a point you seem to be having difficulty grasping, and this thread was not started to discuss religion, so you're hijacking it. Knock it off. (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) Fit in one another's realm -Jon (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Well, I can tell you my perception has changed since I accidently fell into a debate recently. You know those people who have an inner smugness from the knowledge that in any given gathering of people they are generally smarter than just about (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) Larry - your vehemous defence of asking to be left alone is admirable indeed. And you are certainly correct in that you are facing the consequences of your actions - I will actually support your doing so. But I would ask you this - If you knew (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) Larry - your vehemous defence of asking to be left alone is admirable indeed. And you are certainly correct in that you are facing the consequences of your actions - I will actually support your doing so. But I would ask you this - If you knew (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) Huh? "They most certainly do" what? I'm not sure what you're referring to here. (...) Oh, ye of little faith. Dave! (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) You're right to call me on that; I wrote that improperly and more-or-less in direct conflict to my overall argument. Science changes in that it is progressive and cumulative, letting go of obsolete or outmoded theories, or at any rate (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) I DON'T - Don't let him force you in to his inconsistant "proof" requirements. See 7864... (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) They most certainly do, although it's nice to see that you're answering your own questions... I sense that you are edging closer to God. -Jon (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) A suppose this is a slight against religion - stagnation from dogma? If so, I should point out that religion (Christianity at least) hasn't stagnated at all... (...) A bald claim at best - a false statement in reality. (...) No, not really. I (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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|
(...) Side point - ARE NOT! Otherwise, you'd stop buying Lego ;-) -- | Tom Stangl, Technical Support Netscape Communications Corp | Please do not associate my personal views with my employer (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) The Bible was written BY MEN. I refuse to believe that your God would have tapped people on the shoulder 2K years ago, and NO other time in history. Do you believe EVERYTHING written by men? Doubtful. So why believe something written by many (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: New LEGO factory inaugurated
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(...) Plus Reading the press release it might have something to do with transport costs. After all I once heard the Czech Republic being described as the crossroads of Europe.- i.e It's convenient for most of the EU AND for Eastern Europe that (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) Ah - "current" to you means currently in vogue, whereas to me it meant recent. Ok. (...) Sorry, science does change - at least the way we understand it. (Science is not how we understand things. Science is the framework we use to understand (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: New LEGO factory inaugurated
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|
(...) Plus Reading the press release it might have something to do with transport costs. After all I once heard the Czech Republic being described as the crossroads of Europe.- i.e It's convenient for most of the EU AND for Eastern Europe that (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) So what you are saying is the OT is wrong, the NT is right? The ORIGINAL thoughts and ideas written (by PEOPLE, remember) were too icky, so they watered them down in the NT, and you choose to believe the adulterated ideas? <squirm, squirm> (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) able (...) system (...) Even "meta-information" must be logically consistent. The trick is that most axioms probably do not refer to themselves, but if they do (as the statement in question appears to fall within its own scope), they must pass (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) It sounds like a sucky deal to me. (...) I see. So the right to drop your kids in vats of acid only comes with lots of love. (One might say so much love that we can't really experience it, right?) (...) amusement. (...) But wasn't Satan (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) I might well be. In fact he well may be right that if this is a claim, that it's subject to its own test, and may well fail it. But I'm not sure that I agree that this particular yardstick has to be able to measure itself. That, I think, may (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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Mr. Pieniazek: (...) true (...) When Mr. Irvine challenged the author's statement as being (apparently) self-defeating, you responded with: (...) I (...) The question, with this in mind, can be put as follows: Is the author's statement -- "[E]very (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The Supremes: Play it again, FSC....
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(...) Grin. FUT .debate, this is debate fodder if anything is. Well I just read the entire USSC opinion (you can get to a .pdf of it on the CNN site) and I am not sure I agree. My take on it is that the supremes feel that the Florida Supreme Court (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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(...) OK, if an individual were are the bottom of the social/economic ladder in the US - how could they buy an axe to chop down the tree? Who's tree would they chop down? How would they get to the tree to chop it down? What would they weave cloths (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: About "Plowed Territory"
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(...) Done. Call me on it if I slide, as I will you. (...) This thread, not being about Religion, but rather being about the tendency for certain elements to repeat themselves, is inappropriate for an answer. Start a new thread (which I will then (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: About "Plowed Territory"
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(...) Deal. (...) One nit...why "improbable"? -John (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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(...) Why is that? I think that basically everyone who wants to can even now. Certainly the move to Libertopia would not change that. (...) But you would have more to invest back into your society _and_ you would have the ability to choose how such (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) No! I disagree! Etc etc. :) Darned UUs! Any forum is only as good as its practitioners. Since LUGNET went 'live' I've operated with the assumption that .debate matters stay in .debate, and expect others to do the same--I've only once seen what (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertopia - unproven theory
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(...) I was listening to your countryman, Nader, make just the same point on Friday evening. He made a credible argument for idea of change - what is yours? The LP would have government run by them and private enterprise (cutting out the middle man (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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(...) I'm not sure we they do. We have a different culture from you - we need less materialistic comfort. I suppose most of it harks back to our class structure. In the UK, most of my countrymen aim to rise up the class structure. Being (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: About "Plowed Territory"
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Tell you what, John... (...) How about this: I concede that it is not impossible(1) that the christian god as described by brand X (choose your favorite brand, there are many choices) exists. With the implication, of course, that brands Y, Z, A, B, (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: About "Plowed Territory" - Outcomes
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(...) I suggest asking a similar "honest question" to your self: "How would I personally, or anyone else for that matter, be benefited by the knowledge that there is god?" (...) So what? (...) This is the most stupid way of reasoning, unfortunately (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Wow, that's the answer John. I really appreciated it. I think the only answer for any belief can be "I believe/don't believe it, because I like it this way ay don't feel any need to have any evidences for it" and till now you are the only one (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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Sorry Jon, but I think you should be feeling "trapped"..:-) (...) Hey I'm good and righteous, too. Selçuk (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) All of the following answers are predicated upon a belief that the Bible is true and these answers solely represent It's content. This is not an attempt to "assimilate" anyone. It is merely answers to question posed. (...) Because it's His (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) It is you, sir, who hasn't been listening. (...) NEVER ASKED YOU TO BELIEVE ONCE. Go back and check. (...) Okay, here is my point (again). If I turned water in wine right in front of your eyes, what I am hearing you say is that you wouldn't (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Critical Thinking
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(...) I think He (Jesus) made it perfectly clear as recorded in the Gospels. (...) I never said that. It is more right for me (obviously, because otherwise I'd believe the one which I felt most valid). (...) Hmm. Works in advertising.... -John (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: About "Plowed Territory"
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(...) I don't know, Lar. Whether you drive a horse and cart, a 2000 LeSabre or a Hovercoupe, you are still going to wonder about the nature of your own existence and die. Maybe the little details change, but the important questions are still the (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) I would like to see .debate be able to exist as something worthwhile, but I sense that with each debate which explodes into a ravaging god vs science debate, we lose another of the folks who are interested in serious debate. I'm not sure how (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) we (...) Why? Seriously. Is the creation of an individual human life a reasonable analogy? Do you advocate parents having the same rights over their children that you are accepting of your God having over us? (...) I think that creating life (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) No one here is enslaved! The above whining is based on a misconception about Diety. Many people in history have been enslaved and don't whine about it or blame it for why they can't get ahead. No, I have no patience for whining. It's a Marine (...) (24 years ago, 3-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Understood. The point is not how good someone is, we are expected to be good, no brownie points there. Being good is breaking even. The problem is in the deficits we allow. How do we make up for our mistakes? Apologize and correct it in the (...) (24 years ago, 3-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian debate in danger of pollution (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Oops. My bad. I should have caught that, but as you say, I was away for what has got to be one of the biggest weeks on l.o-t.d and was racing to mow through hundreds of posts. At this point I'm overwhelmed and haven't even looked at the (...) (24 years ago, 3-Dec-00, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The god debate again... sigh (Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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(...) Yes. As well as all the statues. Bill (24 years ago, 3-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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