Subject:
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Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:14:53 GMT
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Viewed:
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3989 times
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In my sytem I have the right to free education.
In my sytem I have the right to free healthcare.
In my sytem I have the right the right to social provision.
In my system a starving man has the right to food.
Is that not utopia?
Scott A
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > Chris said:
> > > Scott said:
> > > > Lar said:
> > > > > If I can give you all the benefits of your system but with less costs, why
> > > > > would you be against it?
> > > >
> > > > Because I am happy with what I have already, I do not want more. I'd rather
> > > > my saving was invested back into society.
> > >
> > > But you would have more to invest back into your society _and_ you would have
> > > the ability to choose how such investment should be made.
> >
> > I may well have more to invest. But would more, overall, be invested?
>
> I think so. Let's get more hypothetical, then (is it possible to be more or
> less hypothetical? I think so)...
>
> Suppose that I could provide you a society in which non governmental systems
> were providing everything, EVERYTHING, you wanted to have government to do,
> in larger quantities than currently, and in which EVERYONE had more material
> goods, more wealth, and worked less hard. Charity took care of all the needs
> of the unfortunate, etc. (pick whatever other suffering ameliorating factors
> you like to add, we'll posit them as being there too) The ONLY exception
> would be that government wasn't in the business of regulating molarity based
> on democratic outcomes, it merely enforced a set of basic rights which were
> immutable and not subject to expansion or contraction.
>
> Would you reject this system, which outperformed and outproduced yours, and
> in which everyone was happier (by the metric they themselves chose, be it
> material, time, spiritual freedom, etc..) in favor of one in which the will
> of the majority was imposed on the minority "for their own good"
>
> Remember, this is purely hypothetical, so no objections of practicality can
> be raised (whether this system can be created is not the question at hand).
>
> I think if you answer "I reject" we have gotten to a fundamental (and
> perhaps irreconcilable) difference between us, because I in turn reject the
> notion that it's OK for the majority to impose its will on everyone. That
> is, I personally reject an unbounded, unfettered, unrestrained democracy in
> favor of one that is tightly constrained in terms of what force can be used
> to accomplish and in terms of what rights can be usurped by majority vote.
>
> Note that because I'm not currently in violent armed resistance to a thing
> does not mean I approve of it, merely that I choose to go along for
> convenience or whatever.
>
> ++Lar
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| (...) Assuming those are true (that things are "free"), Dunno. Are there any downsides or hidden costs? I of course hold there are no utopias per se. But suppose, readdressing my question if we could, that I could give you a system that delivered (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| (...) As much as you want? (...) No matter the cost? At maximum quality? (...) I don't know what that means. (...) All kinds? (...) It is not. In your system, do you have the right to multiple wives? Prostitution? Recreational drugs? What about (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| (...) I think so. Let's get more hypothetical, then (is it possible to be more or less hypothetical? I think so)... Suppose that I could provide you a society in which non governmental systems were providing everything, EVERYTHING, you wanted to (...) (24 years ago, 5-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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