Subject:
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Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:16:15 GMT
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Viewed:
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3234 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
>
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > > (by analogy,
>
> <emphasis>
> > > not trying to start a topic:
> </emphasis>
>
> But, oh what the heck...
>
> > > I don't approve of
> > > paying taxes at the current level, I just go along. I *know* we can have
> > > "enough" government (to suit me) for less taxes and I *hope* we can have
> > > "enough" for none at all, properly structured, but I go along)
> >
> > This reminds me of an article I was reading the other day. In 1997 USA tax
> > at ~30% of GDP (1999 GDP / cap = $34k) whilst in the UK is was at ~34% (1999
> > GDP / cap = $22k) and in Denmark tax is at ~50% (1999 GDP / cap = $24k).
> >
> > Denmark rejected the Euro this year, partly due to the fact that they feared
> > it would result in _lower_ taxes and public services cuts. However, it was
> > the narrow margin between the UK/USA which surprised me more. Based on my
> > understanding of the differences between UK/US governmental
> > education/health/welfare provision I was shocked at the difference - even in
> > percentage terms (in $ terms we pay less tax/cap than the USA). The extra
> > ~4% has provided me with free healthcare, free education (from pre-school to
> > PhD – 23 years) and welfare support. Quite good value for money.
> >
> > Would you not prefer to find 4% savings in USA system to provide extra
> > provision, rather than a tax cut?
>
> Not sure it's an apples to apples. I can argue it the other way round...
> rather than the 4% of GDP difference giving you free healthcare, free
> education and welfare support... instead, the free gov stuff has given you
> $12K/cap less GDP. I like that extra GDP, it's more money in my pocket, and
> my money buys more than your does per dollar too.
It appears I have dug myself a hole. GDP is not a measure of happiness – it
is only a measure of the domestic output of a nation. If wealth were
uniformly distributed, then it could be used as a measure of happiness – but
it is not in the UK, or the US. (This is taken from my copy of Begg)
From (I have not read it all):
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ecbig/gdp.htm
"As a result the GDP not only masks the breakdown of the social structure
and the natural habitat upon which the economy--and life itself--ultimately
depend; worse, it actually portrays such breakdown as economic gain."
> How do you explain the difference in GDP/cap?
I was a little surprised at the difference myself – but your economy has
been in “boom” (under “liberal” control) for some time, while the focus in
the UK has been on low inflation (~2% right now). But I do understand your
economy may be cooling…
This article balances underestimates in UK GDP with US productivity gains
(longer working hours?):
.http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1035000/1035153.stm2
Despite the difference in GDP etc, I’d still rather live in a society where
education is based on the ability to learn – not the ability to pay.
My GDP data for Denmark was wrong - these data are from the UN @ 1998:
United Kingdom 23934
Singapore 24577
Hong Kong SAR 24581
Belgium 24692
France 24739
Monaco 24739
Finland 24934
Netherlands 24956
Austria 25911
Germany 26183
Sweden 26790
Iceland 29946
Japan 29956
USA 31746
Denmark 33085
Norway 33203
Liechtenstein 35910
Switzerland 35910
Bermuda 38652
Luxembourg 43475
Chile has 4921
So, you see, there are countries with quite high levels of social provision
& high GDP.
Scott A
>
> After all, for quite a while the UK way outclassed the US in GDP/cap!!! Sun
> never sets on the British (mercantile) empire and all that...
>
> (aside, what was the saying, "the Irish conquer it, the Scots run it and the
> English take the credit?")
Not in my part.
Scott A
>
> ++Lar
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| (...) Happiness is hard to measure, especially in the aggregate. GDP is at best a wildly imperfect stand in, but I'm not sure there are better ones. (c.f. economic theory of law that you turned me on to) (...) Not sure what to make of that, not even (...) (24 years ago, 30-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| (...) <emphasis> (...) </emphasis> But, oh what the heck... (...) Not sure it's an apples to apples. I can argue it the other way round... rather than the 4% of GDP difference giving you free healthcare, free education and welfare support... (...) (24 years ago, 30-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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