Subject:
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Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:54:34 GMT
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Viewed:
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4418 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
>
> > > > > As much as you want?
> > > >
> > > > I have had free education - pre-school to PhD.
> > >
> > > What if you wanted more education? And how did you afford to eat and stay • out
> > > of the rain while pursuing your free education.
> >
> > The state paid my to be a student. Not very much, but enough to mean I could
> > concentre of my studies - rather than flipping burgers.
>
> Do they do that for everyone or just a few?
Everyone.
> If you wanted more education would
> it still be free and would they still pay your survival fees?
If I was from a low income background it would be free. Other wise, I'd have
to pay a notioanl amount towards my degree (phd & school education would
still be free).
> What if you
> wanted to study abroad?
Free inside the EU.
>
> > > > > > In my sytem I have the right to free healthcare.
> > > > >
> > > > > No matter the cost? At maximum quality?
> > > >
> > > > Note quite, but that is the aim.
> > >
> > > "Not quite" implies that it's close. From what I understand, it isn't
> >
> > It is not perfect - I agree.
>
> This started because you claimed to live in utopia. If it isn't perfect then
> it isn't utopia, right?
Understament. Americans do not often get it
>
> > But the NHS is a highly respected orginisation in the UK.
>
> Isn't that rather like rating your own family? How often to citizens of the UK
> opt to pay for private healthcare?
<<5% - Mostly cosmetic surgery
>
> > > > I suppose you'd call it "Welfare".
> > >
> > > Meaning free beer and smokes?
> >
> > Nope. How persuasive, you stigmatise the vast majority of those of welfare
> > who are between jobs, can not work because they are unable to work in some
> > way, children who are victims of poor parenting with a tiny majority of
> > claimants.
>
> Show me the numbers. The only people that I have personally known who were
> receiving aid of this type fell into two categories.
You've got the wrong kind of friends.
> They were either college
> students who screwed up and had kid(s) before they could really pay for them,
> or MUCH more often, they were not at all interested in working for a living. I
> spent a few years cashiering at a convenience store on the verge of a quite
> poor neighborhood. People would routinely bring their $1 foodstamps in for a
> $.05 piece of candy, get the $.95 in change, and buy cigarettes. Oddly, it
> would turn out that they would have forgotten one piece of candy and do the
> same thing then buy a pint of cheap vodka or 40 oz. of beer. You can't take my
> personal experience away. I knew literally hundreds of these people. Worst of
> all is that some of them worked (for cash) at the rug cleaners down the block
> from my first 7-11 so that they got money from working (a good thing) but
> continued to recieve their government cheese and income (a bad thing).
>
> Hundreds of them engaged in this game just in the little market where I worked
> in St. Louis County, Missouri. How many in all of St. Louis County? How many
> in the US. We are being milked. And we are fools for allowing it.
Most of this may be due to the kind of attitude you have. It makes them feel
outside society - so they do not mind robbing it.
>
> > Many people who claim benefits in the UK have my up most respect,
> > many are widows of those who have died in past conflicts – many more
> > actually fought in those conflicts Naturally, in your dreamland these people
> > would simply starve.
>
> Just because you say something, doesn't make it so. First, people who enlist
> in the service of the nation have an employment contract that includes a
> lifetime of poor quality health benefits. Also, most people in the service
> learn skills that allow them to be productive members of society. And finally,
> I don't have the profound respect for people who go to war that some seem to
> think I just have, just because they went to war. If they went to a bad war,
> then they may be bad people.
You sound bitter.
>
> > > > > In your system, do you have the right to multiple wives?
> > > >
> > > > I don't want it.
> > >
> > > And it doesn't matter to you what others want?
> >
> > Is there a point to this?
>
> That you are willing to force other people to comply with an arbitrary
> morality.
>
> > > > > Prostitution?
> > > >
> > > > I don't need it.
> > >
> > > And it doesn't matter to you what others want?
> >
> > Is there a point to this? If so, make it.
>
> I made the mistake of thinking that the point was self-evident. Since
> prostitution doesn't hurt people, it is morally wrong to make it illegal.
> Control of people is bad.
>
> > > > > Recreational drugs?
> > > >
> > > > I don't need it.
> > >
> > > And it doesn't matter to you what others want?
> >
> > Is there a point to this? If so, make it. Stop wasting time.
>
> Hah! Wasting time indeed. By not addressing the point, I think it is you who
> are wasting time. Why not just tell us that you think the majority is divinely
> infallible and thus we should all comply with its dictates regardless of how
> harmful? If that's what you believe, then have the spine to tell us and we can
> all move on.
I don't believe that.
>
> > > > > What about other victimless (so-called)
> > > > > criminal activity?
> > > >
> > > > I could vote to outlaw what I wish.
> > >
> > > That is precisely why "your system" is not utopia. Because you reserve the
> > > right to outlaw behaviors that do no harm but offend your aesthetic.
> >
> > The crimes you list are not "victimless".
>
> If you can't show me a victim, then there is none. Feel free to show me the
> victims of polygamy, prostitution, and recreational drug use.
Prostitution:
U.S. Grapples With Modern-Day Slavery
8/31/00 - CNN
U.S. officials estimate that 50,000 people from Latin America, Eastern
Europe and Asia are trafficked into the United States annually by organized
crime gangs. Officials say half of them are women and girls -- some barely
into their teens -- who are forced into prostitution.
>
> > >
> > > > > And anyway, your post was a dodge, not an answer to Larry's.
> > > >
> > > > In your opinion.
> > >
> > > I guess it was my opinion only that it was a dodge, but it is simple fact • that
> > > you avoided giving a straight answer to Larry's straight question. I suppose
> > > instead of a dodge, you could be so unfamiliar with English that you didn't
> > > understand his note. But all the evidence that I have indicates otherwise, • so
> > > I doubt that's it.
> >
> > In your opinion.
>
> What is it that you're stating is my opinion? And why are you stating it? I
> suppose ultimately everything I assert is my opinion, but pointing that out has
> no value, so hopefully that's not where you're going with this.
>
> Chris
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| (...) Wow. Why isn't everyone a student? I've been searching for an angle to allow me to go back to college and just stay there. Being a professor seems pretty good, but I'd rather just be a student forever. (...) Nifty! (But not Lar's kind of (...) (24 years ago, 6-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| Scott A wrote in message ... (...) stay (...) could (...) It used to be that students got grants to go to uni in the UK, but I thought that now (I have been away for nearly 20 years, so I'm going by what I hear from family still living there) that's (...) (24 years ago, 7-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| (...) out (...) Do they do that for everyone or just a few? If you wanted more education would it still be free and would they still pay your survival fees? What if you wanted to study abroad? (...) This started because you claimed to live in (...) (24 years ago, 6-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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