Subject:
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Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:12:04 GMT
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Viewed:
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4079 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > > > As much as you want?
> > >
> > > I have had free education - pre-school to PhD.
> >
> > What if you wanted more education? And how did you afford to eat and stay • out
> > of the rain while pursuing your free education.
>
> The state paid my to be a student. Not very much, but enough to mean I could
> concentre of my studies - rather than flipping burgers.
Do they do that for everyone or just a few? If you wanted more education would
it still be free and would they still pay your survival fees? What if you
wanted to study abroad?
> > > > > In my sytem I have the right to free healthcare.
> > > >
> > > > No matter the cost? At maximum quality?
> > >
> > > Note quite, but that is the aim.
> >
> > "Not quite" implies that it's close. From what I understand, it isn't
>
> It is not perfect - I agree.
This started because you claimed to live in utopia. If it isn't perfect then
it isn't utopia, right?
> But the NHS is a highly respected orginisation in the UK.
Isn't that rather like rating your own family? How often to citizens of the UK
opt to pay for private healthcare?
> > > I suppose you'd call it "Welfare".
> >
> > Meaning free beer and smokes?
>
> Nope. How persuasive, you stigmatise the vast majority of those of welfare
> who are between jobs, can not work because they are unable to work in some
> way, children who are victims of poor parenting with a tiny majority of
> claimants.
Show me the numbers. The only people that I have personally known who were
receiving aid of this type fell into two categories. They were either college
students who screwed up and had kid(s) before they could really pay for them,
or MUCH more often, they were not at all interested in working for a living. I
spent a few years cashiering at a convenience store on the verge of a quite
poor neighborhood. People would routinely bring their $1 foodstamps in for a
$.05 piece of candy, get the $.95 in change, and buy cigarettes. Oddly, it
would turn out that they would have forgotten one piece of candy and do the
same thing then buy a pint of cheap vodka or 40 oz. of beer. You can't take my
personal experience away. I knew literally hundreds of these people. Worst of
all is that some of them worked (for cash) at the rug cleaners down the block
from my first 7-11 so that they got money from working (a good thing) but
continued to recieve their government cheese and income (a bad thing).
Hundreds of them engaged in this game just in the little market where I worked
in St. Louis County, Missouri. How many in all of St. Louis County? How many
in the US. We are being milked. And we are fools for allowing it.
> Many people who claim benefits in the UK have my up most respect,
> many are widows of those who have died in past conflicts – many more
> actually fought in those conflicts Naturally, in your dreamland these people
> would simply starve.
Just because you say something, doesn't make it so. First, people who enlist
in the service of the nation have an employment contract that includes a
lifetime of poor quality health benefits. Also, most people in the service
learn skills that allow them to be productive members of society. And finally,
I don't have the profound respect for people who go to war that some seem to
think I just have, just because they went to war. If they went to a bad war,
then they may be bad people.
> > > > In your system, do you have the right to multiple wives?
> > >
> > > I don't want it.
> >
> > And it doesn't matter to you what others want?
>
> Is there a point to this?
That you are willing to force other people to comply with an arbitrary
morality.
> > > > Prostitution?
> > >
> > > I don't need it.
> >
> > And it doesn't matter to you what others want?
>
> Is there a point to this? If so, make it.
I made the mistake of thinking that the point was self-evident. Since
prostitution doesn't hurt people, it is morally wrong to make it illegal.
Control of people is bad.
> > > > Recreational drugs?
> > >
> > > I don't need it.
> >
> > And it doesn't matter to you what others want?
>
> Is there a point to this? If so, make it. Stop wasting time.
Hah! Wasting time indeed. By not addressing the point, I think it is you who
are wasting time. Why not just tell us that you think the majority is divinely
infallible and thus we should all comply with its dictates regardless of how
harmful? If that's what you believe, then have the spine to tell us and we can
all move on.
> > > > What about other victimless (so-called)
> > > > criminal activity?
> > >
> > > I could vote to outlaw what I wish.
> >
> > That is precisely why "your system" is not utopia. Because you reserve the
> > right to outlaw behaviors that do no harm but offend your aesthetic.
>
> The crimes you list are not "victimless".
If you can't show me a victim, then there is none. Feel free to show me the
victims of polygamy, prostitution, and recreational drug use.
> >
> > > > And anyway, your post was a dodge, not an answer to Larry's.
> > >
> > > In your opinion.
> >
> > I guess it was my opinion only that it was a dodge, but it is simple fact • that
> > you avoided giving a straight answer to Larry's straight question. I suppose
> > instead of a dodge, you could be so unfamiliar with English that you didn't
> > understand his note. But all the evidence that I have indicates otherwise, • so
> > I doubt that's it.
>
> In your opinion.
What is it that you're stating is my opinion? And why are you stating it? I
suppose ultimately everything I assert is my opinion, but pointing that out has
no value, so hopefully that's not where you're going with this.
Chris
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| (...) Everyone. (...) If I was from a low income background it would be free. Other wise, I'd have to pay a notioanl amount towards my degree (phd & school education would still be free). (...) Free inside the EU. (...) Understament. Americans do (...) (24 years ago, 6-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| (...) When I was working at a Krogers in college in the Seafood dept, I had several people ask me if food stamps could be used to buy lobster. I also saw people buying sirloin with foodstamps. Why should someone that is on foodstamps be able to eat (...) (24 years ago, 13-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: IP ( was Re: LP POINT 1
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| (...) The state paid my to be a student. Not very much, but enough to mean I could concentre of my studies - rather than flipping burgers. (...) It is not perfect - I agree. But the NHS is a highly respected orginisation in the UK. The poeple who (...) (24 years ago, 6-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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