Subject:
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Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:08:44 GMT
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Viewed:
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1077 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bill Farkas writes:
>
> > > I simply can't believe in such a petty and vengeful god as the Christian God.
> >
> > He's not petty or vengeful. Substantiate *your* claim. He put's up with
> > quite a lot. He's actually quite patient.
>
> I think what is generally meant when your God is called petty and vengeful is
> a reference to the popular assertion that regardless of how good we act, if we
> fail to suck up to him, we go to hell. That's probably what Tom means. It's
> certainly what I would mean if I were saying that.
Understood. The point is not how good someone is, we are expected to be
good, no brownie points there. Being good is breaking even. The problem is
in the deficits we allow. How do we make up for our mistakes? Apologize and
correct it in the future? Again, that would simply be doing what is expected
- nothing special. The standard is not our conception of good, but His.
Assuming he created life, he makes the rules.
So, why is it an issue anyway? Warning: subjectively Biblical answer
following! Speaking from a Biblical perspective only, God created life
because He wanted to love it. We choose to do otherwise, intentionally or
not, depending on the individual. This causes a separation between us and
Him. He doesn't want that - He wants to "walk with us in the cool of the
garden". So He institutes an excruciatingly simple remedy that anyone could
apply making it possible for the two to be reunited.
God hates sin because it separates Him from the ones He loves period. Those
who do not accept His remedy spurn his affections. Remember, the assumption
is that if He made the game, He makes the rules. God does not condemn a
single person without it tearing His heart out. He does it in anguish, not
gleefully. The one who is condemned is so by his own hand, God made an easy
way out but it was rejected. Again, all of this is strictly a Biblical
perspective in answer to the above questions.
He is not unloving, mean, vengeful or petty when He condemns someone, they are.
>
> Empahsized in my own terms:
>
> If I have to worship someone to avoid neverending torture, that someone is
> evil. Period. If that is your God, then your God is the sum of evil.
> Grace and Providence are myths. You worship the most evil force man could
> imagine, and you are personally not just a coward for submitting, but evil too
> for trying to get others to submit to such evil.
I don't get your reasoning. How is He evil? Considering that His motivation
is to be reunited with something that is rightfully His in the first place,
it is not evil. His motives are not self-centered, he seeks to avert evil on
our behalf.
Besides, this is a criticism that we Christians always endure. That we
preach, "Repent or burn!" That's a distortion of the Gospel not found in the
NT. I didn't believe solely to avoid a negative. I accepted a positive. Big
difference. The NT Gospel is "Repent and receive!" The Gospel is preached to
those who already realize that they are separated from God and want to do
something about it. Those who don't realize this don't listen. To them it is
not a gospel. But I go back to the reasoning above: God made life, He makes
the rules. That's how it works here and no one finds fault.
>
> OTOH, if your God is something other than the popular conception of the
> Christian patriarch, then maybe none of that applies.
Ditto.
>
> Chris
Bill
Again, the above answers are from a biblical perspective, if you don't
accept the Bible then disregard. The questions made it applicable.
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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| (...) we (...) Why? Seriously. Is the creation of an individual human life a reasonable analogy? Do you advocate parents having the same rights over their children that you are accepting of your God having over us? (...) I think that creating life (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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| (...) I think what is generally meant when your God is called petty and vengeful is a reference to the popular assertion that regardless of how good we act, if we fail to suck up to him, we go to hell. That's probably what Tom means. It's certainly (...) (24 years ago, 3-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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