Subject:
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Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:49:56 GMT
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Viewed:
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1342 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tom Stangl writes:
> Knowing that it would happen, but creating Lucifer anyways, he in effect DID
> cause it. Just as he has caused all sin in history, as he created everyone
> knowing exactly what would happen.
>
> Sure he did - he created us, knowing we would cause the ship to sink, so in
> effect, HE caused it to sink.
That's the long disputed point-- and to that end, how about the question "If
God can do anything, can he make a problem so difficult that HE can't solve
it?" Basically, the Christian idea of free will says to me that God allowed
for the POSSIBILITY of evil, but did not know himself which path man (or his
angels fot that matter) would choose. After all, wouldn't you get bored of
knowing everything in advance? If you cause the rain to fall on cue, ditto
earthquakes, the sunrise, etc, wouldn't it be more interesting to have a
creation that you can't predict? Or perhaps simply one that you DON'T
predict? Perhaps one could say that God COULD predict the system, but
didn't. And as such, perhaps he inadvertently created evil, not having
wanted to look forward to see if it would exist or not... Anyway, either way
you slice it, God did ALLOW for evil, but you can't presume to know His intent.
> And someone with no contact with Christians, divining their own god in the
> process, goes to hell. I don't buy it, Christianity is petty and cruel.
> Ignorance should not damn you.
Agree-- but different sects of Christianity will tell you different things
about that. Personally, I think any religion based on temporal events in
reality is probably wrong. A human (or anything else) SHOULD be able to
divine ethics and a love of God (or whatever the religion requires) on their
own. In effect, I could view Jesus as a prophet of God's word, to HELP
people find truth, but not as the ONLY salvation, since those unassociated
with Jesus would have no salvation otherwise, as you say. But I think Bill
already answered that by saying:
> People can initially find God without the Bible. The Bible says that the
> creation of the world reveals God to the world, making them without excuse.
> If someone truly wants to know the truth about God, God WILL reveal Himself
> to that person.
My only nit with this is that the WORLD cannot reveal God in any means
except science, for that is the language of the world, and that debate has
already been picked through. Hence, I would say that it is not the world
that reveals God, but some inner human ability, most likely linked to
emotion. Hence, a human 'feels' a connection to something grander-- he does
not experience it in the "world".
Of course my other nit is verification. If I discover God on my own without
the Bible, and then happen upon it, would I instantly recognize it as the
work of God? How about the Koran (or however you spell it)? What would I
think of the Old Testament vs. the new one? Or how about Hinduism? How does
one distinguish God's work from something false? (Of course, I don't like
the answer I'll get for that for obvious reasons, see below)
> > If people ignore them it's their own fault. Not hearing is something
> > different. Addressed it above about creation revealing God, etc.
Sorry, I hate this argument. I seem to draw a parallel to the Emperor's New
Clothes. If you can't see the clothes, you're stupid! And with Christianity,
if you can't hear God, you're evil/wrong/a sinner/going to hell. It allows
Christians to put themselves above others without the others having any
recourse other than to acknowledge the Christian claim.
And obviously, I'll allow them that argument. I can't logically dispute it.
Just like I couldn't logically dispute the existance of the Emperor's
clothes. Perhaps everyone in the kingdom really WAS stupid. (They went along
with it, didn't they?) Maybe the clothes really WERE there! *I* don't think
they were, but I'll grant that they *could* have been.
DaveE
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