 | | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Well, the point is really "what if you could see into the past", not necessarily "what if you could travel to the past and do unspeakable things to temporal continuity, as great of an April Fools that would be". Again, let's say the WayBack (...) (19 years ago, 1-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) The problem with this example, though, is that once we posit the existence of a WayBack Machine, we have allowed for time traveling marvels in our universe. What's to prevent some creationist with a WayBack machine of his own from going back (...) (19 years ago, 1-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) sake of argument :) (...) Exactly correct, effectively. IE that any creationist must assume that at SOME point, your great-great-<insert greats here>-great-grandparents DIDN'T exist, because the generation after that was the first to appear, (...) (19 years ago, 1-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) ***snip*** (...) I think I gave my answer in the post to which you replied: (URL) summary, it's entirely possible that no quantity of numbers is sufficient to prove that the theory is true as long as other potentially disproving numbers have (...) (19 years ago, 1-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Ha! Well, as an odd sidenote, my sophomore year of high school (when I took Biology), there was an NSTA (National Science Teachers Association) in Boston, right near my High School. And as it turns out, my bio teacher was the official head (...) (19 years ago, 1-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) We've already passed this part of the debate, but I stumbled upon this article: (URL) seemed relevant. Dave! (19 years ago, 1-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) So you agree then that creationism has no place being taught in a science class? Allister (19 years ago, 1-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Dave E and I have been discussing a point of semantics very similar to what I'm about to propose, but please bear with me... It just occurred to me that to say that one has "faith" that God and Event#1 are synonymous is not appreciably (...) (19 years ago, 1-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Yggdrasil will finally get the recognition it deserves! I'll love ramming it down the throats of all those Origins-thumping eddicated segments of society. -->Odin All-Father<-- When there's a weekday named after Darwin, you can get back to me! (19 years ago, 1-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Essentially, just saying that nature throws this string of numbers at us. Not sure what it represents. We see the 1st number is 1. We have to wait 500 years to see what the next number is. During those 500 years, what do we think the next (...) (19 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) I'm not sure I agree. If we found a dynamic systems model of the universe which predicted the future (and the past) with ridiculous accuracy, and used it to backtrack in time, I think it could effectively prove evolution to be accurate or not. (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) On that, I concur completely. It's a leap I'm not able to make, but I agree that it's central to accepting creationism as an explanation. (...) Oh, I know that. Heck, I think I know a whole lot less than you probably think I think. (...) Fair (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) That's right. I know I've mentioned it in previous debates, and I thought I'd re-mentioned here, but apparently I hadn't. (...) This dredges up math classes that I haven't had in well over a decade, so forgive me if my answer isn't rock-solid. (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Awesome: online hebrew version here: (URL) best I can translate it (and it is proverbs, so it's a terrible pain): Fear of God first (or primary?) knowledge wisdom and morals fools therein. Hmm. The fools part throws me off - wish I had my own (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Yeah, like me! (...) That was unbelievable! First of all, I'm only vaguely aware of the song. I've never seen the (original) video, but I can imagine that it has been mimicked shot for shot! How funny, and yet at the same time sad. JOHN (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) <googles 'online bible', does search> It's Proverbs 1:7. And searching for 'fear of god' turns up plenty of results, starting back with Abraham in Genesis 20:11. (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) This is a Hebrew proverb? I've never heard of it, I don't think. I think the bible doesn't have many sections where "fear of god" is supposed to be a good thing. Point me where it's from (book/verse), I'll look it up :) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) But my point is that science cannot ever address creation because it fundamentally defies logic. God and Event#1 are synonymous. Creation demands a leap of faith. (...) I did not know that. I had read about dark matter and was shocked when I (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) lol (...) Sorry, I may have been too obscure for some people. If you like parody, and Christian in-jokes, look and listen to the "Baby Got Book" video, here: (URL) Steve (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) More into real estate. Huge....tracts of land. (...) Stylin'! JOHN (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) I'll hold off here-- is that what you meant to say about a scientific theory being proven? IE that no contradictions "prove" it (and accepting that it is a falsifiable theory) (...) See, there's the bit that I was getting at: "reasonable (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Terri Schiavo
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(...) Don't forget that this apostle of the Culture of Life, during his tenure as governor of the great State of Texas, signed the bill that allowed hospitals to terminate life support against a family's wishes if such support was deemed too costly (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Terri Schiavo
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I'm amazed that the man who took the world on an illegal war which cost the lives of tens-of-thousands, disrespects human rights and executed dozens of juvenile offenders did not have the power to "save" (URL) Terri Schiavo>. I'm even more amazed (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) But let's be clear--that so-called elitist minority is arguing in favor of that which can be confirmed by independent observation and experiment, whereas Mummert et al are arguing that we should teach creationism because the bible says it's (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Really? I figured you'd be more the type for big books... Steve (Thompson Chain with the big red letters!) (NIV with the ribbon bookmark!) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Good builder? Really good at microscale? Worked on the LEGO Factory project? I think you're thinking of ROSS! (I've alleged before that Ross does all the good building in that family, J2 just takes the credit...) Seriously, ya, he's not bad. (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Well, technically he did with the Factory Team last year?! Perhaps he still does? - with NDAs we're not really in a position to know one way or the other! Seriously though, John's one of my favorite builders. His work is always top notch. (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) He has a LEGO career? I did not know that! (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) :) lol... that's pretty good, but don't leave your Lego career for the music biz just yet! :) Spencer (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) No, only that He hides it well. God: "Does my mass look big in this universe?" I like big orbs and I cannot lie....:-) JOHN (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) In lugnet.off-topic.debate, J. Spencer Rezkalla wrote: (...) C'mon, you two, stop. There is really no need, is there? You can be funny enough without the bowdlerizations, right? A guy would think you guys are trying to make me grumpy. Leave (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) So what exactly are you implying here - that God's got a huge mASS? Spencer (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Oh, I got that simpler part too - but I felt like examining the contents within the article to see if they supported it. Definitely a foot-in-mouth award is due here. :) Spencer (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Well, OK. But the reason I found it funny is much more simple... the speaker is basically saying *he's* not intelligent or not educated, or perhaps, neither. (and you know what, I tend to think he's right... he isn't!) Didn't mean to spark a (...) (20 years ago, 31-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Well, I totally agree, but that's really just saying that the two are unrelated. Which is fine. Wisdom =/= Intelligence. But I just kinda find it sad that the connatation forming on the Right is that "Intelligence = Bad/Unwise/Evil". (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton wrote: <snip> (...) Merely because a person knows a lot about quantum mechanics or is an expert on pottery from the Ming Dynasty doesn't make them any wiser than an old hayseed from Tennessee. I mean, wasn't (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Or, framed another way, an overwhelming minority who wish to impose their elitist, secular beliefs on the unwashed masses. (...) See, here is the crux of the issue for me: science has the temerity to assume that it will ever come close to (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) **snip of example** I figured that you and I had been through all this already before. Proof in scientific terms is most certainly not in the eye of the beholder, but "proof" in that context doesn't mean the same thing as "proof" in a (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: These are the Daves I know Was some other debate
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Rob Doucette wrote: Hey! What's a "Rob" doing in this thread? (...) ---...--- Too Many Daves ---...--- Did I ever tell you that Mrs McCave had twenty-three sons and named them all Dave? Well, she did. And that wasn't a (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: These are the Daves I know Was some other debate
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(...) It's better with music: (URL) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | These are the Daves I know Was some other debate
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton wrote: <snip> . Arguing is so much more fun :) (...) Do all Daves consider arguing fun? Or is that just the Daves around here? Dave K (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Well, my initial response was something a bit more argumentative. But when I started thinking about it, I realized there were some interpretations of the statement that I found I agreed with. So I erased my 2 paragraphs and wound up with a (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) I'm gonna skip down to here, because here's the meat of the argument, I think. Proof is in the eye of the beholder. *DISPROOF* is far more objective. I'm thinking of a number sequence. The first number is 1. A creationist (I'm gonna go back to (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) To be fair, you did say "I guess that's right," without disclaiming a whole lot of wiggle room. I can accept your more elaborate articuation below, but I hope you can see that my response wasn't inappropriate given your initially apparent (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) That's true, which is why I didn't say "that's exactly correct!". But in thinking about human evolution, a very early step (and not necessarily the first, depending on what you call steps versus qualifications, or transition states or (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Well, that's a big difference! I have no more fear of the Lord of the Bible than I have of the (URL) of the Dance> (and maybe less). I similarly don't fear Bigfoot, the Easter Bunny, or Paul Bunyan. Rather than equivocating on some overlap (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) You're attempting to repaint the issue along purely semantic rather than functional or philosophical lines, and thereby you're casting your vote in favor of creationism. An actual scientist is someone who practices actual science, as opposed (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Not at all! The first human reaction to that which is out of our control is to control or predict it. Understand it. Particularly if it's important to us. Understanding why the grass is green, for instance, is of far less importance to (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Eh, I think the counterargument goes that 1) what *you* call an "actual" scientist doesn't necessarily match what others might call an "actual" scientist 2) why should this be classified as "science"? Calling it "history" might be what (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) I would tend agree that is the context of the quote - fortunately, Mr. Mummert demonstrates in the article why he is not a member of this "intelligent, educated segment of the culture" by foolishly combining evolutionary theory and (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Are you kidding? Dave! (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) I likewise suspect that Mummert was making an attempt at irony, and the fact that he also happened to frame the issue correctly is more ironic still. The culture war, in this context, is a tiny and radical fringe that wishes to impose a (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) I have to admit I'm kind of suprised at the terminology. I've heard that same sort of reference quite a bit (calling liberals/left-wingers/etc "intellectual" or "educated"), and I always expect some other sort of more derrogatory phrase to (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) This attitude is, unfortunately, exactly at the heart of the problem. It is abhorrent that anyone suggests that the mythology of Creationism (under whatever label) should be taught alongside a scientific theory so thoroughly confirmed that no (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Ha! Reminds me of the poll I heard wherein some majority of people found Kerry to be more intelligent, but W to be more trustworthy. In effect, it showed that there were lots of people out there who preferred someone who was trustworthy to (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) I think what the person meant was that we are being attacked by the intelligensia, the secular "educated" elite, and I think he is right on. There is a culture war going on in our country. Heh, what I find hysterical is the thought of (...) (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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(...) Props to Mummert for correctly identifying his enemy. Give those smart people an inch, and they'll take ~2.54 centimeters. Dave! (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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I found the subject quote hysterically funny. YMMV... (URL) toward the bottom of that story. (20 years ago, 30-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Personality test vs. Religion
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(...) Patient readers may recall the extended exchange that DaveE and I had back in November or so regarding the Myers-Briggs Testing Instrument. Suffice it to say that we were, in the end, of surprisingly like mind; I objected to the test's use in (...) (20 years ago, 28-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Spotted! Liberals on my layout!
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(...) WRT the clone-- I don't even know what brand it actually is. It was a part of a JAL promo set that was given to me by a family member who worked for NW airlines. You wouldn't suppose that I'd actually pay for a clone, would you? :-) Although I (...) (20 years ago, 28-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Spotted! Liberals on my layout!
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(...) Hmm... Left to right? That makes you more Left than me?! Well, I guess that explains the lobotomy hole atop my head. I'm offended not by the joke but by the fact that a Tandem(?) clone minifig was used to represent my esteemed countenance! Oh, (...) (20 years ago, 28-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Spotted! Liberals on my layout!
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(...) Yup. I thought you were the pirate buff. The clone is Dave! (20 years ago, 28-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Spotted! Liberals on my layout!
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(...) So....is that left to right? (20 years ago, 27-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Spotted! Liberals on my layout!
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Check out this pose of -->Bruce<--, me, and Dave! (URL) Well, I thought that it was kinda funny... JOHN (20 years ago, 26-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) I believe the point of three consecutive life setences is so that if someone becomes eligible for parole, they would still have to serve the next consecutive sentence (used in states that do not have "Life without any possible parole" (...) (20 years ago, 8-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) Because if a person is doing it for amusement, then chances are that it’s not absolutely wrong for that person. The most broadly inclusive conclusion I can draw is to say that the taking of life is generally considered to be objectionable to (...) (20 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) Why would you be so reticent to conclude that the taking of an innocent human life for no reason or purpose, but for, say amusement, isn't absolutely wrong and evil for everyone, not just you yourself? (...) Yes, but according to you, nothing (...) (20 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) Well, that's my point. These types of absurd sentences are given out anyway. (...) We do that anyway with our system that releases criminals on technicalities and those criminals go on to kill again. (...) I was trying to focus specifically on (...) (20 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) Not sure where you are going with that since no one is going to live a couple of hundred years. (...) So we don't murder innocent people. (...) My point exactly. (...) How so? (...) No. There's lots of people who confess to crimes that they (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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At this point I should restate my standard disclaimer that I see no reason to conclude that any moral absolutes can be known by humans with certainty. With this in mind, any seemingly absolute statements I make along the lines of “reality TV is (...) (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) Yes. I was hoping to take one at a time. JOHN (...) (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) Hey, that's an important distinction to make, and I don't think that I was making it in our part of the thread. But let's make sure we're clear-- You're debating about the morality of execution itself (presumably in cases in which guilt is (...) (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) That well may be, but my point was and is to try and address the moral issue of execution directly. Your post reminds me of that classic scene in "Mr. Mom" where Jack is using the "Rocky" analogy. "Which Rocky?" :-) JOHN (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) Certainly not knowingly. Nothing in life is certain, death and taxes notwithstanding, so I fail to see why this issue should be held to an impossible standard. Yeah, it's irreversible, but work as hard as humanly possbile to make the system (...) (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Don't know how this'll be received
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Considering that sometimes I've been 'pro Canada' in the past... but anyway-- (URL) which former Foreign Minister of Canada, Lloyd Axwothy, wrote an open letter to Condi-- " By LLOYD AXWORTHY Dear Condi, I'm glad you've decided to get over your fit (...) (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) Bruce has already mentioned the problem of certainty, which is a pretty strong objection IMO. The current system has numerous examples of convicted people who didn’t commit the murders of which they’re accused, so we’re actually executing (or (...) (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) If you can prove that all confessions are 100% truthful. What if he's lying to protect his sister? Sure he probably deserves a penalty for lying about it, but the needle? ROSCO (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Excellent news!
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(...) Thanks. Resume kicking position:-) (...) Well, humans only live so long. I see little difference in a sentence of 40 years and one of 3 consecutive life sentences. I love it when someone becomes eligible for parole after a couple of hundred (...) (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote: <snip> (...) Surely you'd agree that the victims differ from the two cases of loss of life-- one "victim" is a murderer, and the other is an innocent. Therein lies all the difference in my view. (...) (...) (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) First, a quote: "You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore." -Dick Nixon (to the press, after losing the governor's race in California, who, sure enough, didn't have the wisdom to stick with his promise and got the ultimate kicking (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) That's an interesting argument. For me, the problem arises when we try to grant one person the authority to kill another. A state-sanctioned execution, once the prisoner has already been rendered harmless, seems to me no different morally from (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I knew it was so obvious. As I said, I just couldn't resist. (...) Of course I'm referring to principles! I know that. Even if English is my second language, I know the difference between those 2 words. However, I was "paraphrasing" Jason with (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) Who told you that!?? Was it one of my jerk employees?[1] (...) I agree with your assessments. I think that if certain individuals hadn't valued liberty more than life, our country wouldn't have been formed, and generally speaking, liberty for (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I'm not sure what "death-without-freedom" means, or why it might be of any value to the soon-to-be-deceased. Or did you mean "inescapable death" versus "life without possibility of parole?" (...) If the option were put forth as life with (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) (that's not actually a fair example, because those prisoners are trying to get from death-without-freedom to life-without-freedom. It's not an exchange of life and freedom.) Obtaining life-without-freedom opens the possibility of it being (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Be careful--I hear that you can be a real tyrant, so you're in for quite a conflict with yourself. (...) Hmm. At the risk of over-lawyering, I guess I'd need to be sure of the parameters of the question. Which is more precious: one person's (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) We do work them. The vast majority of prisoners in the penal system participate in some sort of work program, be it washing dishes, road side trash detail, or whatnot. But, as with everything in prison, work is a priviledge and there is always (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You have to consider the cost of judges wages, court time, time waiting for court cases (spent in jail-more than ten years on average if I remember). That could easily add to more than the cost of incarceration. Also, consider that your (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Either one, however, is obscenely expensive. And getting moreso. Meanwhile, the penal system gains more and more power in voting blocs, etc. And lawmakers make more things felonies that shouldn't be. You know, if a chunk of my taxes weren't (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Oh, puhleez. It's a WORD, not a lifestyle/defining principle. And that's "uneducated". (...) ...and that's "site". Oh, the irony. (...) The irony is even thicker... -- Tom Stangl *(URL) Visual FAQ home *(URL) Visual FAQ Home (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(snip) (...) um...shouldn't that be "principles"? Terry, I challenge you to do a show, and tell every one of the children viewing your display "its f---ing cool!" That's using it in everyday language, right? I wonder how many parents will be leaving (...) (20 years ago, 2-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) (I'm breaking my own self-imposed rule about posting here, so I will deal with me later;-) I have a question I'd like to ask you that in my mind relates to this topic, Dave! Which is more precious: life or freedom? JOHN (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) No way, you've got to be kidding me. Now I know how we massage a budget here in our little sewer district to show numbers we want, so I can imagine a criminal institution can show how it costs $1/day to support a convict. Sorry, I don't buy (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) George Carlin - now there's a man that can swear. (20 years ago, 2-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Hello Mark: Since your post hasn’t yet been answered, I’ll take a stab at it. You’ve already raised some good objections yourself, upon which I’ll elaborate. You ask what would constitute a satisfactory deterrent/punishment for the planned (...) (20 years ago, 2-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) (URL) I should caution that the place-of-birth listed in that second reference might strike some readers as borderline profanity...) Dave! (20 years ago, 2-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) Sorry, I just couldn't resist jumping in, being the nitpicker that I am, in the good spirits that I'm in right now. 1) That was not a pun, just a (IMO) joke so obvious that it was pretty pointless making it in the first place. 2) I think you (...) (20 years ago, 2-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Bye, bye Canada
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(...) Do you speak French? If not, I guess you don't speak to the vast majority of people here that speak French as their natural language, that have no idea that there is a Canadian culture (most people here wouldn't know that Avril Lavigne, Bryan (...) (20 years ago, 2-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bye, bye LUGNET
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(...) James, haven't you got the slightest idea of what you're talking about? I'm no more Canadian at heart that you are, I don't know, Martian. So even if all the official papers say that I'm whatever you want, I'm what I want, nothing more, (...) (20 years ago, 2-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Meh. Comments like that come from an education man I guess???... I was implying "about Lar". Stop talking about that person, not at all. I'm surprised a superior being like you couldn't understand that. (...) Woh... So by saying the "F" word, (...) (20 years ago, 2-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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