Subject:
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Re: Excellent news!
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 3 Mar 2005 16:06:52 GMT
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Viewed:
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960 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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You ask what would constitute a satisfactory deterrent/punishment for the
planned killing of another human being.
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(I’m breaking my own self-imposed rule about posting here, so I will deal
with me later;-)
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Be careful--I hear that you can be a real tyrant,
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Who told you that!?? Was it one of my jerk employees?[1]
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so you’re in for quite a
conflict with yourself.
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Which is more precious: life or freedom?
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Hmm. At the risk of over-lawyering, I guess I’d need to be sure of the
parameters of the question.
Which is more precious: one person’s life or that same person’s freedom?
I guess that’s up to the person, assuming that he or she is competent to
make that decision (which, I grant, is another debate in itself) However,
given the fact that so many prisoners continue to appeal their death
sentences in hope of commuting them to life-without-parole, I’d have to
conclude that, for these people at least, life is more precious than freedom.
Which is more precious: “life itself” or “freedom itself?”
I’d say that, by default, “life itself” is more precious, because without
“life itself,” “freedom itself” is basically just a thought experiment.
Which is more precious: one person’s life or “freedom itself?”
Again, that’s probably up to the person; I’m not sure that there’s a
convincing correlation between one and the other, and it’s probably not a
black-and-white deal in any case. Is everyone’s freedom, in the aggregate,
more important than one innocent person’s life? By what metric are we to
compare them? Lacking a clear means of assessing one against the other, I am
inclined to conclude that we have no basis for valuing freedom over one
person’s life, especially if there are other options besides simply killing
that person. On the other hand, I guess I can think of at least one dad who
(the story goes) thought that everyone’s freedom was more precious than his
son’s life...
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I agree with your assessments. I think that if certain individuals hadn’t
valued liberty more than life, our country wouldn’t have been formed, and
generally speaking, liberty for all isn’t possible unless there are those who
are willing to risk their lives on behalf of their society to maintain it. But
that isn’t really the direction I was heading (although a good one in and of
itself I might add)
If life is most precious, than can we conclude that the willful taking of an
innocent life is the most heinous crime one can commit, only exceeded by the
number of lives taken? If we truly value life (speaking as a society now) as
most precious, shouldn’t our intolerance of those who disregard life be
ultimate? If we do not say to willful murderers, “We regard life so precious
that the punishment for taking life is the ultimate one”, do we in fact really
uphold life as most precious?. Because if murder is only punished by life
imprisonment (loss of liberty), doesn’t that effectively equate murder with
other crimes such as rape, theft, drug usuage? The penalty is the same, and in
many cases, the same duration.
Indeed, is it not even offensive that heinous murderers are allowed to
retain that which is most precious when they didn’t afford the same to their
victims? Keeping them alive doesn’t uphold the value of life; ending theirs
does-- the precious lives of their victims.
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Welcome back to ot.debate by the way, however fleetingly.
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Thanks. Maybe I can get some sort of a reprieve from me;-)
JOHN
[1] Self-employed as well:-)
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Excellent news!
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| (...) That's an interesting argument. For me, the problem arises when we try to grant one person the authority to kill another. A state-sanctioned execution, once the prisoner has already been rendered harmless, seems to me no different morally from (...) (19 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: Excellent news!
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| (...) First, a quote: "You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore." -Dick Nixon (to the press, after losing the governor's race in California, who, sure enough, didn't have the wisdom to stick with his promise and got the ultimate kicking (...) (19 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Excellent news!
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| (...) Be careful--I hear that you can be a real tyrant, so you're in for quite a conflict with yourself. (...) Hmm. At the risk of over-lawyering, I guess I'd need to be sure of the parameters of the question. Which is more precious: one person's (...) (19 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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