Subject:
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Re: Excellent news!
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:56:58 GMT
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Viewed:
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953 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mark Neumann wrote:
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Query: What in your opinion (not necessarily Dave but YOU the reader) is a
satisfactory deterent/punishment for the planned killing of another human?
(I’m not talking about drunk drivers or rage induced killings. I mean the
serial killer or the one who dileberately plans and executes the
extinguishing of another human life)
I’ve always sort of thought of life in prison as a waste of resources. For
some therepy and the like could work, but overall I think it also fits nicely
into waste of resources.
Capital punishment seemed good enough, eye for an eye sort of thing, but yes
that really doesn’t make it right. (especially considering the state of our
policing system that has a nasty tendancy to nab the most available suspect,
not always the correct one. Try to remember folks, CSI is fiction.)
I sort of leaned to a new option. From my experience in the service I found
that the bloodthirsty/violent crowd does rather well in the infantry. To
that effect I thought penal units could be an interesting option. Creative
use of homicidal tendancies? I figure if I have to pay for this sucker to
exist I want thier talents utilized in a positive way.
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Hello Mark:
Since your post hasn’t yet been answered, I’ll take a stab at it. You’ve
already raised some good objections yourself, upon which I’ll elaborate.
You ask what would constitute a satisfactory deterrent/punishment for the
planned killing of another human being. Let’s take this as two separate
questions:
Regarding a deterrent, the use of capital punishment has never reliably been
shown to have a reliable negative effect on the incidence of murder. There are
numerous reasons for this: crimes may be committed in moments of passion; crimes
may result from (artificially or otherwise) diminished mental capacity; crimes
may be committed without giving thought to the consequences; etc. etc. etc.
Regarding a punishment, the use of capital punishment is still problematic: it
is solely retributive and allows no chance of rehabilitation; it is applied
unevenly across racial and/or economic groups; it is ethically ambiguous (ie.,
why is the killing of a now-harmless person justified while that person’s
killing of another person is not?); it allows for no corrective action if an
innocent person is mistakenly executed; it is hugely expensive, once the
appeals process is complete; it’s regressive, insofar as the eye-for-an-eye
argument is based in millennia-old law etc. etc. etc.
Beyond these major shortcomings, we must consider the fact that our society’s
understanding of murder is limited; if a serial killer is driven by an inherent
mental defect, are we justified in killing that person because of actions he
could not prevent?
You mentioned the issue of resources. I don’t have the figures in front of me,
but the cost of supporting a criminal for a full life-sentence is considerably
less than the cost of prosecuting that same criminal through the entirety of his
appeals process. This would also have the advantage of allowing for corrective
action if the criminal is later found to be innocent.
You also suggest a “penal unit” to be used in military action. This presents
additional problems, among them the matters of discipline and reliability, not
to mention the possibility of warcrimes committed by a group formed on the basis
of homicidal tendencies. I’ll let others comment on this question if they wish.
Good questions in any case, Mark.
Dave!
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Excellent news!
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| (...) No way, you've got to be kidding me. Now I know how we massage a budget here in our little sewer district to show numbers we want, so I can imagine a criminal institution can show how it costs $1/day to support a convict. Sorry, I don't buy (...) (19 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: Excellent news!
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| (...) (I'm breaking my own self-imposed rule about posting here, so I will deal with me later;-) I have a question I'd like to ask you that in my mind relates to this topic, Dave! Which is more precious: life or freedom? JOHN (19 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: Excellent news!
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| (...) Either one, however, is obscenely expensive. And getting moreso. Meanwhile, the penal system gains more and more power in voting blocs, etc. And lawmakers make more things felonies that shouldn't be. You know, if a chunk of my taxes weren't (...) (19 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Excellent news!
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| (...) Query: What in your opinion (not necessarily Dave but YOU the reader) is a satisfactory deterent/punishment for the planned killing of another human? (I'm not talking about drunk drivers or rage induced killings. I mean the serial killer or (...) (19 years ago, 1-Mar-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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