 | | Re: From a mailing list
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GK0pzq.7uE@lugnet.com... (...) we (...) leaders, (...) to Cat. This is a good post. I like it. /J (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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Hello, in addition to what Daniel Jassim already wrote, this article made me wonder whether Arafat is really leading these tactical maneuvers, or whether he is merely losing control ... Greetings Horst (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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... however they did this without guns. So how does the firearms discussion get into this article? I suspect the author has some hidden agenda, and is trying to capitalize on the current rage. If so, shame on him ... Other than that, I think the (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) I don't know what you're asking here? Do I deny there were celebrations? Of course not, that's pretty obvious. And I don't think the Arabs are denying the celebrations either, just specific portions of the initial footage shown in America. The (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) ok, so you are denying that the complete footage, as seen on CNN is real, actual palestinians celebrating the WTC attack... which is exactly what you said no one is doing. Drop that though, what basis do you have to claim that any part of it (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Because it's shocking to see such behavior, but I'm not surprised that the Palestinians would feel that way after everything they've endured. I think anyone wishing to pass judgement on another should first consider walking in their shoes. How (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | From a mailing list
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I can't attribute the source because I don't know. I am on a mailing list of IBMers and exIBMers, all of who used to hang out on IBMTEXT (and especially the NITPICK FORUM) and one of them got this in HER email and reposted it. Flame me if you want (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Which is a kind of attack. (...) Unarmed attacks are nevertheless attacks. You've been caught in a logical contradiction and unless you can get away with redefining pacifism to mean something it does not, you're stuck. Admit it and move on. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Big bad greedy US capitalists exploiting the world
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(...) Well no, actually, they are in fact *not* happy for "any amount". If you physically mail them a penny, you're costing them *more* to process it than it's worth to them. Not costing you more, costing *them* more. Taking this example further, If (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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"Eric Kingsley" <kingsley@nelug.org> wrote in message news:GK0IsA.GL2@lugnet.com... (...) Even if the F-16 did shoot them out the sky, the passengers on board did not know that was going to happen. I can't believe it was a cover up, as the reports (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) weaponless (...) You have to be kidding!!! These hijackers more than likely had killed some crew, possibly some passangers, and almost certainly the pilots. The passangers knew this. They also knew, via phone conversations, that planes were (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Big bad greedy US capitalists exploiting the world
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(...) I think of it as costing *me* more - the Red Cross are happy for any amount. But you're right - it essentially means I deprived them of a small donation from yahoo (or whoever carries the cost of collecting the donations). ROSCO (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) As I said, it was more likely a charge - remember they were probably weaponless - whether they were intending to hurt the hijackers is anyone's guess. My aim in their position would be (if I had time to think about it): 1. Try and get control (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Can you site examples when Israel or the US censored a report of a civilian gathering? not talking about details about a military operation, since that actually does make sense. But civilian? Also, can you site a single example of anyone (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) So you concede that it is likely that one or more passengers did in fact attack, then? I grant that we may never know for certain, but submit that the evidence is very strongly pointing in that direction. Therefore the passenger or passengers (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "The Roots of Muslim Rage"
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(...) He's half right. This *is* an internal Muslim issue, but the (technically non Muslim, by many interpretations of the Koran) radicals have forfeited the right for it to remain solely internal. They are going to get some outside interference (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Big bad greedy US capitalists exploiting the world
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(...) How did you do that? Directly? Too bad. You *missed* the point. The point is that you cost the Red Cross more (as a percentage of your donation) if you donate directly than if you donate via Yahoo or Amazon or MSN... every donation takes some (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Nope, I didn't have anything else to direct at you. You answered my question honestly, it's not debunkable. I appreciate that. Thanks Dan. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Big bad greedy US capitalists exploiting the world
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(...) Thanks for posting this. I know there was some talk about a Lugnet community fund raiser type event, but it didn't get much response. I think at this time, people just want to straight out make an immediate donation. There's a celebrity (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | "The Roots of Muslim Rage"
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Another cite. I got this one from Slate -- it's an article by Bernard Lewis that was published in the Atlantic Monthly a while ago. (URL) the whole thing, but I'd like to quote from the last two paragraphs: "THE movement nowadays called (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Big bad greedy US capitalists exploiting the world
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(...) Congratulations people! I donated to Red Cross, which doesn't look like it's part of this organisation, but the more the better! However I think it's a bit of a leap to imply this proves Big bad greedy US capitalists are *not* exploiting the (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Well, I'm not sure where you're going with this, Larry. The Israelis have done the exact same things to foreign journalists, you know that. Even America has censored journalists, such as those covering American sponsored massacres in Central (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) No. (...) follow. Something else entirely. We don't know what they actually did. Did they attack them with weapons? Unlikely. One report I heard said they used cushions to shield themselves while charging the hijackers. Maybe some of them (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Big bad greedy US capitalists exploiting the world
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NOT. (URL) one here really has remarked on this much, but Yahoo and Amazon are powering the donation machines behind the icons that a lot of sites (including the ones I control) are displaying. This org was mentioned in the President's speech just (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) For a while, anyway. Until the "general militia" gets apathetic again (which may take many years). (...) we (...) 7,000 (...) By all reports, the decision made by the passengers of flight 93 was only made after they found out there were more (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Care to elaborate on that? Are you saying that they didn't attack the attackers, or are you saying that to do so is a pacifistic act, or something else entirely? I'm not sure I follow. Thanks. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) You don't know whether they were or not. (...) I'd also like to support that, but I don't think your politicians would take much notice of me 8?( ROSCO (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) This is exactly why we will never see this particular form of attack again. Prior to this attack Pilots and crew had been taught that in a hijacking situation the best way to insure their own safty and the safty of the passangers was to do as (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Still more perspectives on the tragedy
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Horst Lehner writes: [snipped] Horst, I also need to spend some more time reading this. I think this is the kind of review / opinion that politicians[1] need to read, maybe you should consider sending a copy to your (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Flight 93. Thank *all that is worth living for* that the heroes on board that flight *weren't* pacifists. Would any of us have had the courage to do what they did, knowing that it meant almost certain death, in order to save the country from a (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Company of heros
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This one got me crying pretty bad. You've been warned. (URL) reading though. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) This one is easy... First you have the origional WTC Bombing (not directly tied to bin Laden). Second you have the two bombings at the US embassies in Africa (tied to bin Laden) Third you have the attack on the USS Cole (also tied to bin (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Debunk this?
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This seems to have sort of slipped away from discussion... (URL) wonder if Scott A. or Daniel J. might be able to debunk this for me? (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Still more perspectives on the tragedy
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(...) You don't gotta beg. No one else does. :-) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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Here is an op-ed sure to make some folks foam... (URL) not me... This writer *gets* what the militia is. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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Hello Eric, (...) So do I. BTW, I think I understand at least part of the emotionality of the issue, but we simply cannot afford to let our action be guided by it, so here goes my response: (...) And your evidence for that is ... ? (...) Nobody (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Still more perspectives on the tragedy
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Hello Larry ... (...) ... and I guess also not because I beg to differ with your view at times ... ;-) Greetings Horst (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Infinite Justice
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(...) You know I do! But it's probably best not to get me started. I would leave this particular case alone anyway because it IS possible that Richard actually WAS rolling on whatever he was rolling on LOL-- I suppose grown men have done stranger (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Still more perspectives on the tragedy
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Horst Lehner writes: <snip> Wow! Now THAT is what I call a reasoned and thoughtful post. I have to spend some time re-reading it, but thank you very much! It is always great to see someone who is "not one of the usual (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Infinite Justice
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(...) What's to take issue with? It's a logical extension of current trends. Exaggerated for effect, perhaps, but no biggie... (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Still more perspectives on the tragedy
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Hello everybody, after my first, spontaneous posting I realized that a lot of discussion was already going on. I decided it would be a good idea to read through some of it, before I post again myself. In a sense, this posting is an answer to many (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Infinite Justice
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(...) Well, yes. Since this is named in the string (how DO they choose these names anyway??) that also included "infinite reach", the 98 cruise missile Afghan extravaganza, which by the way showed that our reach is pityingly finite, I find it quite (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Jerry Falwell blames feminists, gays, lesbians, ACLU, others...
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Hello Asher, hello everybody, (...) I can see that even in the US, the term Christianity is not a registered trademark, so you can't sue him for tradmark infringement. But ... maybe you have too free a country if you can't put him to court for other (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tale of bravery from fourth plane
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(...) Hm... to a certain extent, this is interesting, but academic... A link not too far away from ones posted here(1), analysing Bush compared to Churchill talked about Churchills brutal honesty, but then discussed how Churchill did not feel the (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Quotes from The Register
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Two interesting articles I dragged up. Good old Reg: (2 URLs) I've commented before that I think this military operation could go disastrously wrong. I'm not offering these as 'evidence', just as interesting editorial. Discuss if you will. Jason J (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Infinite Justice
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(...) Well, I use it in exchange for words like "actually", which is supposed to be a usage problem. But what is one to do? That's the colloquial usage of the word... On a more serious note, is no one going to take issue with what I have proffered (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Infinite Justice
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(...) I suppose "Operation Give Peace A Chance" would be more to your liking? Of course the designation is hyperbolic, and of course it's over-the-top, and of course it's propaganda-ish. That's the whole point of giving the operation a designation. (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Sorry--your knowledge of scripture is more complete than mine. I'll need to re-check my sources. (...) That's not a bad point, but it is a fundamental sticking point for some people. The notion that the OT was a book predicting Christ's (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tale of bravery from fourth plane
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"Bill Farkas" <wolfe65@msn.com> wrote in message news:GJy3I8.1C4@lugnet.com... (...) Rumours still persist that the fourth plane might have been shot down This from todays Independent, a quality UK broadsheet. (URL) to the report, the US government (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) A bullet through every green turban you see. (Or whatever.) I'm not advocating this action, merely answering the question. Chris (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Infinite Justice
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Now, see... this is the kind of stuff that I shouldn't be reading, mostly because it makes sense. Ignorance is strength... this is excatly what my current pastor has been preaching lately, not in those terms of course. Oh, well, what can be done? I (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) To be more precise, evolution is a fact, just as gravity is a fact. The Darwinian model of natural selection is an evolutionary theory--that is, a theory that hopes to explain the process by which the fact of evolution occurs. (...) But no one (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tale of bravery from fourth plane
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Todd graduated from Wheaton College, which is literally a few blocks down the road from me. He also attended Wheaton Academy, my high school. (www.wheatonacademy.org) The website has a picture of him and a paragraph as well. At Gordon College last (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) "Akin" in what sense? That they are fundamentalist Muslims? That they abuse human rights? (...) Hard yes, impossible no. Ending Soviet communism was hard. Ending apartheid was hard. (...) Perhaps policy is a better word; a liberal policy (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Building speculation (was: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) I'd say they're all wet. A building of that form factor and height HAD to be at least as much steel as it was. Increasing the concrete ratio would mean the building would not be able to hold up its own weight. This general theory has been (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Info about the towers and their architect
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(...) Indeed. They made me cry again. I've been crying a lot lately. Thanks for that excellent reference, Eric. (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Tale of bravery from fourth plane
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I was listening to the radio tonight and heard Joe Stowell, president of Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, speaking about a young man who was a college classmate of his daughter and son-in-law. His name was Todd Beamer, he was one of the passengers (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) The "fact" side of this argument is based on Biblical "fact", but it requires "faith" to trust that what is in the Bible is indeed "fact". I suppose I can condede your point. (...) I can think of only two miracles that were not personally (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) That's exactly what I meant. It wasn't an argument; I was just restating the fact that evolution is, indeed, a theory. (...) I wasn't claiming that it necessarily would. I was merely guarding against the possibility of anyone claiming it as (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Building speculation (was: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) concrete (...) The suggestion was not that the concrete would've survived the fire, but less of the building would've been directly involved in the fire, and maybe that little bit extra surviving support may have stopped the catastrophic (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) ROSCO more concrete would have not made a difference.The building withstood the impacts.The fuel melted both the steel and concrete at the point of impact which caused the floors weight above them to collapse the rest of the structure. Mafia? (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) week... (...) Someone on a local Australian show last night brought up the notion that US buildings (including WTC) using more steel[1] may have been a factor in the collapse. I figure things got pretty hot there for a little while, so (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Infinite Justice
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Infinite Justice. Has anyone noticed the peculiar nature of those words? It sounds very like what was imagined as a perpetual war in the essay within a novel, "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism" by Emmanual Goldstein that resides (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A couple more articles on the civil liberties angle
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(...) could have been obtained by the now highly desired relaxing of individual rights of privacy. I guess following up on 6 years old intelligence leads from the Phillipines would have been too easy? This article also contains the following (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> (...) Sorry, just saw this, can't say my attention was focused on LUGNET last week... The architect of the twin towers was Minoru Yamasaki. You can read more about him and the Twin Towers here... (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | A couple more articles on the civil liberties angle
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(URL) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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|
(...) It would be *extremely* difficult to crash a 767 travelling at 500km/h at the lower 20 floors of any building in such a city. That is possibly part of the reason they chose the WTC towers - they were so much higher than surrounding buildings. (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | A request for peace.
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Today, I emailed the following letter to the president, hoping he would listen. -Alfred -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 September 19, 2001 Alfred J. Speredelozzi, Jr. 2670 Fenwick Court Ann Arbor, MI 48104 The Honorable George W. Bush (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate) !
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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Okay, I'm going to jump onto this one just this once... (...) No God in there if you're not a religious person. (...) And all good religious people know this and STILL need this tragical event to wake them up? (...) Whe quoting the bible, everyone (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) Also, what would have been the outcome had the terrorists targeted the base of the buildings? Had the collisions occurred in the lower 20 floors, most folks would have been trapped inside, and toppling may have occurred. (...) Indeed. -Rob. (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Let's be honest about this--it's *entirely* based on faith, and not at all on fact. And that's where the issue ends, for many people. (...) Yes and no. They are capable of presenting a faithful account of their own recollections and of their (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) I find a quote of Benjamin Franklin's expresses my views on the subject. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." It's a bit harsh, but I agree with it, and with Larry, (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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<snip> (...) But the Taliban are akin to the terrorists. It is just coincidence that they also happen to rule Afghanistan. (...) In Afghanistan, going against the government gets you dead. Pretty hard to go against that. (...) Who's plan? the (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Taliban... some things to mull over
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Oh boy! Someone asked for a nitpicker. Here I am! I'd so hate to disappoint. <geek> (...) In the case of Arabic, because it's Romanized, the LC and Chicago standards are that in-name particles like "ibn" or "al" (I would not be surprised if "bin (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) The Somalia analogy holds for a decade ago, I think, when several factions had a more or less equal hold on different parts of the country. Now I'd say Afghanistan has "stabilised" as a decentralised theocracy. (...) First make it clear that (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Taliban... some things to mull over
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(...) There is indeed the money angle. bin Laden's(1) organization runs on money, and his rather large personal fortune is kept in institutions in the west. Once it is proven that he's involved in this (or other) terrorist actions, (2) it may be (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Agreed. I wasn't keen on the "nation building" exercise we tried in Somalia, it failed dismally. But maybe that's what is required here. I have no idea. What's the alternative though? I am *opposed* to just going in and indiscriminately (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Correct. I don't want civil rights lessened or destroyed across the board. (...) I suspect you are reading things correctly, unfortunately. That doesn't make what happens "right" though, as I've said before, just because a majority votes (or (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Taliban... some things to mull over
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(...) Come on now. Did you read the article in the link Larry gave? Have you read anything about the Taliban? Among the things that make them "evil"... - You can be imprisoned for shaving your beard (Or even having it short). - It is not only (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Sorting Air Safety (Re: Rooting out nests of snakes and destroying them)
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(...) Is it time to put an end to this? Could Scott and Larry be banned from replying to each other for a trial period at least? just an idea, DaveL (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) I read that article from the New Yorker -- a really valuable perspective piece I thought. Vollmann does more than describe the Taliban message too, he gives a good background on how they were brought to power by decades of misery in (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Are you saying that the do not want your government to invade the privacy of individuals which they suspect may be terrorists in a manner which is simpler that it is right now, but it is OK for them to improve airport security? In either case, (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Sorting Air Safety (Re: Rooting out nests of snakes and destroying them)
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(...) ... and it looks like I was correct. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Taliban... some things to mull over
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(...) Calling them "evil" proves nothing. It may work for GWB on CNN, but it does nothing for me. (...) Indeed it is not. Neither is it the duty of US to ensure people are enslaved by their government. Or is it? (...) There is nothing to bomb in (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Kill 'em all"
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(...) I have to agreed. I detest talk of revenge and retribution. This should be replaced talk of justice. But the problem with that is that is does to attract views to the networks. Scott A (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Taliban... some things to mull over
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(...) More rumour. More speculation. That is just what we need. Scott A (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) I don't understand this argument. Everything science proposes is theory (hypothesis, actually). It never goes beyond that. Everything science determines is a tentative explanation, pending better. It is not valid to claim that "evolution is (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Well... I heard them. I heard what they were saying BEFORE this. bin Laden's jihad isn't just about Israel being mean to the Palestinians. It's way more than that. Read some of the links posted here, the interviews with him, the link I gave (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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Very well put Richard, Lets finally look at the root cause. All this talk of attacking, revenge, terrorism. Can someone please tell me why these people did these horrific acts? What drove them? was it the only option they had to make their (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | If he's not linked/responsible then why are they carrying his flag?
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What I want to know is, if Osama bin Laden is not involved then why are people carrying his flag and making statements? This to me doesn't make sense. If someone else was involved, surely they'd carry his flag instead?... Anyone else wake up and (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) If that's a backhanded concession of any sort, I'll take it. :) Another good site is www.swordandspirit.com. It's chock full of humor - about as far from cranky as you can yet. (...) I don't see this. Can you cite an example? (...) At this (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) I'm sure that we'll see more civilians die at the hands of fanatics, and I'm sick to the guts at the prospect of a terrorist nuke or deliberately seeded epidemic. I don't know when it will end. I don't think politeness works with insane (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Before people foam about this petition, they ought to go actually read it. It asks for very reasonable things... that we seek to obtain proof of who did it, that we do our utmost not to target civilians, that we not seek revenge on nations (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The Taliban... some things to mull over
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This is a very long article but I found it quite worth the read. (URL) far as I am concerned, the Taliban is pretty straightforwardly evil, if only for what it has done to its own people in the name of Islam. That said, it is not the duty of the US (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) I want you to identify precisely what that means for me, because it is my guess that if you REALLY examine what it might mean you will see how it is an unachievable goal. And even if it is achievable, I have the funny idea that what you are (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) I have to jump in... What do you think pacifism at a time like now is going to get us? All it will get us is more innocent Americans (among others) killed. Do you think these people are just going to stop now? Do you think if we say "Please (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) I try to be a pacifist: as Richard says, it's a position that's only really challenging when war looms. The more I think about it the more I am convinced that any military offensive in the Middle East will be a grave mistake, morally as well (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | (canceled)
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| | Re: New Bill expands the DMCA
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(...) What's worse, "digital devices" means software and hardware. So open source operating systems would be illegal. (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Zogby Reuters poll
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In article <GJuwHM.9ED@lugnet.com>, "Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote: <snip> (...) You also have to consider that the only contact Joe Sixpack has with arab peoples in general is what he sees in movies or on the evening news. J.S. (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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