Subject:
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Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 19 Sep 2001 02:45:07 GMT
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Viewed:
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427 times
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Very well put Richard, Lets finally look at the root cause.
All this talk of attacking, revenge, terrorism.
Can someone please tell me why these people did these horrific acts?
What drove them? was it the only option they had to make their statement?
And that must be why they did what they did. To make a statement. Yet does
anyone listen to them or are we going to just ignore them again and sit in
terror and fear until they decide to do it again?
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should be able to get away with
it - they should be sought out and persecuted for the crime they've committed.
But lets do it for that reason - that they've committed a criminal act. by
going on crusades to stamp out terorrism only makes us all terrorists.
You can't say we'll kill anyone that isnt peaceful - thats just plain
hypocritical.
I'm not sure I'm explaining myself well, but I guess what I'm trying to say
is: I hope we're able to learn something out of this, everyone involved The
attacked, the attackers and those that may one day fall into either of
those. Its an opportunity to solve the problem once and for all, not just to
continuate it.
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Eric Kingsley writes:
> > ....I think we need to do whatever is necessary to remove the threat of terrorism
> > from the face of the earth. [footnote omitted]
>
> I want you to identify precisely what that means for me, because it is my
> guess that if you REALLY examine what it might mean you will see how it is
> an unachievable goal. And even if it is achievable, I have the funny idea
> that what you are advocating may be monstrous in terms of human lives lost
> and our currently schizophrenic foreign policy.
>
> BTW, I am not exactly a pacificist here. I am not saying that it's okay for
> people elsewhere to come here and get their licks in -- we can stop that
> with something less than war though, surely. War will just be a way to
> excuse all kinds of governmental abuses at home and abroad. History shows
> us this. I am terrified to have this yahoo in the white house in charge of
> the matter though.
>
> I'll take the other side of this now -- let's say I stand for war. I say we
> go in and kick ass HARD [If I can't get a concise military action, this is
> my fallback position]! There are not a lot of countries that could stand
> against us in our full power. If we are going to do it, then fine, let's do
> it right. What I cannot abide under any circumstances is the idea that we
> now have the excuse for another prolonged, poorly defined conflict along the
> lines of what Powell keeps going on about. Who suborns such a thing? But
> guess who's in charge of the matter -- Bush and Powell.
>
> Anyway, the best thing I heard today was that what the leader of the Green
> Party in Germany said -- she (sorry, no name here) thought that all talk of
> what role Germany would play in all of this was premature absent evidence of
> who exactly is responsible for the acts of terrorism. Right, let's find out
> what really know vs what we think we know...
>
> I have only heard that Osama bin Laden is suspect #1. Do we ACTUALLY know
> that he is guilty of planning this act? Where's the evidentiary support for
> any of this?
>
> BTW, I am reminded of Pearl Harbor inasmuch as I have heard that the FBI
> knew about this plan for over 6 years -- they had intelligence on the matter
> from the Phillipines. What, besides spending billions, do our national law
> enforcement agencies actually do? I was fairly appalled at this news -- not
> surprised, just appalled.
>
> One minute we support bin Laden, the next he is public enemy #1. Is it
> pointless to call for something a little less schizophrenic in terms of our
> foreign policy? Someone has actually defended this stuff, saying it was
> hard to define what to do sometimes, and that sometimes one makes mistakes.
> You know, when the matter is that confusing, one could do a lot worse then
> doing nothing at all. Because when we do the wrong thing, we have also
> ourselves to blame. Maybe Osama bin Laden is fitting payback for our
> cavalier approach to foriegn policy. We created this monster, maybe it's
> fitting that he is now somehow our problem. I know that this is a harsh
> viewpoint -- but I think we could also do worse than look in the mirror when
> we are looking for our enemies.
>
> Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for
> good men to do nothing." How about when the good men act in support of the
> evil for a short-term gain, what can they expect in the long run? You
> connect the dots...
>
> -- Hop-Frog
>
> "There is no need to sally forth, for it remains true that those things
> which make us human are, curiously enough, always close at hand. Resolve,
> then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tiny blasts of
> tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may
> be us."
> - Walt Kelly, from intro to "The Pogo Papers"
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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| (...) Well... I heard them. I heard what they were saying BEFORE this. bin Laden's jihad isn't just about Israel being mean to the Palestinians. It's way more than that. Read some of the links posted here, the interviews with him, the link I gave (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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| (...) I want you to identify precisely what that means for me, because it is my guess that if you REALLY examine what it might mean you will see how it is an unachievable goal. And even if it is achievable, I have the funny idea that what you are (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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