Subject:
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Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:12:57 GMT
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Viewed:
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339 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Low writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
>
> > Snipping a lot of good stuff, to focus on one issue. I particularly liked the
> > "War on Drugs" -- "War on Terror" analogy.
>
> > Some have suggested that now is not the time to talk of peace or
> > alternatives to war. But if now is not the time, when is the time? It is
> > easy to talk of peace in a time of peace because it requires no effort. I
> > ask those inclined to war to consider their better natures and to look for a
> > more generous alternative. I ask this generosity not so much for the sake
> > of our possible enemies, as for ourselves. Perhaps you have heard it said
> > that "Vengeance cuts both ways."
> >
> > Warmongering in a time of war feels like patriotism. But believe me, true
> > patriots also talk of peace and love their country no less for it.
>
> I try to be a pacifist: as Richard says, it's a position that's only really
> challenging when war looms. The more I think about it the more I am
> convinced that any military offensive in the Middle East will be a grave
> mistake, morally as well as logistically and politically. Homicidal maniacs
> need to be subdued and murderers need to be prosecuted, preferably in an
> international forum. But should civilians die because their country shelters
> a war-mongering born-again former playboy? The assault on the people of the
> United States was wrong: an attack on the people of Afghanistan would also
> be wrong.
I have to jump in... What do you think pacifism at a time like now is going to
get us? All it will get us is more innocent Americans (among others) killed.
Do you think these people are just going to stop now? Do you think if we say
"Please don't do that again" that they will listen?
For goodness sake (I am really trying to stay in control here), I don't think
we should just bomb the heck our of any country and kill innocent civilians but
I do think our military, whether that be bombs, special opps, or full scale
invasion is required and unfortunately when that happens innocents will more
than likely get in the way.
>
> Be angry about last Tuesday's murders, and have the courage not to seek
> revenge. People might also consider signing the petition at
> http://www.9-11peace.org/petition/ .
There is a difference between revenge and justice and I think that is what the
government is looking for. That does not mean that we will see bin Laden on
trial, my guess is that at best we will get a body. (The Dead part of "Dead or
Alive"). To me that would be a start of getting justice, unfortunately it
doesn't end with bin Laden.
My take is that if we do nothing the Terrorists will keep terrorising and more
Americans (and others) will die. If we fight the terrorists will probably get
a few more attacks in as well. So in the short term I think we can expect more
terrorist attacks. In the long run, with a strong and focused military agenda
we will prevail.
This is a time for action not pacifism. I love peace as much as anyone, and
that is exactly why I think we need to do whatever is necessary to remove the
threat of terrorism from the face of the earth.1
Eric Kingsley
1. I don't really think we can remove it entirely but if we can remove 95% of
it and cut of those that fund it then we can at least prevent events such as
last Tuesdays attacks.
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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| (...) I want you to identify precisely what that means for me, because it is my guess that if you REALLY examine what it might mean you will see how it is an unachievable goal. And even if it is achievable, I have the funny idea that what you are (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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| (...) I'm sure that we'll see more civilians die at the hands of fanatics, and I'm sick to the guts at the prospect of a terrorist nuke or deliberately seeded epidemic. I don't know when it will end. I don't think politeness works with insane (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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| Hello Eric, (...) So do I. BTW, I think I understand at least part of the emotionality of the issue, but we simply cannot afford to let our action be guided by it, so here goes my response: (...) And your evidence for that is ... ? (...) Nobody (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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| (...) I try to be a pacifist: as Richard says, it's a position that's only really challenging when war looms. The more I think about it the more I am convinced that any military offensive in the Middle East will be a grave mistake, morally as well (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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