Subject:
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Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:46:03 GMT
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Viewed:
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814 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Ross Crawford writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Horst Lehner writes:
> > > Hello Ross,
> >
> > Hi Horst,
> >
> > > > Maybe the attack was violent, maybe it wasn't.
> > >
> > > Please, explain what a nonviolent attack is.
> >
> > Please replace "attack" with "action".
>
> Evidence doesn't support the "action" being pacifistic.
>
> But let's step back here. We've been wrangling and you're too stubborn to
> admit you're wrong about the nuances (you accused me of wriggling,
Actually, it was "squirming" http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=13141
however I explained what I actually meant in the footnote, which seems to be
close to what you say below 8?)
> all I did
> was try to restate things, I stand behind ANY variant of my original
> assertion I gave....).
I too stated (same post) that I agree with all three variants you've presented,
just not the original assertion (see below).
> And maybe so am I too stubborn, too stubborn to let
> you get away with it.
>
> We're not getting anywhere.
>
> Can you take this back up to the larger context? What point are you trying
> to make? My larger point is that pacifism isn't *always* the answer and I
> gave an example. Do you disagree that pacifism isn't always the answer?
No (after disentagling all those negatives). To make it absolutely clear, I
believe there may be situations where pacifism isn't the answer, and further, I
believe flight 93 may have been one of those situations (and, in hindsight, the
other hijacked flights).
> Or
> is it a different point altogether?
My challenge was directly with your statement: "Thank *all that is worth living
for* that the heroes on board that flight *weren't* pacifists.". IMO, this
implies they were never pacifists, and that is not a statement I agree with. In
fact, I'm of the opinion that it's possible some (or all) of them were
pacifists up until a very short time before they decided to take action. Just
as situations of great stress can cause people to "find god", I believe it can
also cause them to change their beliefs regarding violence.
Unfortunately, I subsequently allowed myself to be drawn into an argument which
wasn't hugely relevant to my reasons for the original challenge.
ROSCO
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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| (...) Evidence doesn't support the "action" being pacifistic. But let's step back here. We've been wrangling and you're too stubborn to admit you're wrong about the nuances (you accused me of wriggling, all I did was try to restate things, I stand (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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