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In lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, Richard Marchetti wrote:
You made a typo there. It’s spelled “s-e-l-e-c-t-i-v-e”. Either that or
“d-i-s-c-e-r-n-i-n-g”, depending on the exact meaning you were shooting for.
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I can’t think of another situation in which someone would have this kind of
insane brand loyalty when working with a particular medium.
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Really? Have you ever talked to people who customize cars (there are some who
only customize one particular model)? Or action figures (I happen to be one
such person, and I can tell you truthfully that most customizers are fanatically
loyal to their particular brand of acrylic paint)? Or who carve marble (only
the finest Italian will do, after all)? Have you ever gotten involved in
miniatures war-gaming (brand loyalty for not just the miniatures, but also the
paint is quite common)? Brand loyalty is quite common for general consumption,
so why should it be any different for art supplies?
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When quality is that much of an issue for someone, niether brand will do --
one would have to mix and grind paint down from oil bases and dry pigments
with a mortar and pestle. Yes, I know what I am talking about...
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Or analine dyes (mmm, tasty-licious...*cough-hack-thud*)...but sculpting with
bricks requires that one have some sort of bricks to work with. Producing them
from scratch is fairly cost-prohibitive. Yes, I know what I’m talking
about... Anyways, if anyone in this hobby was truly that critical about what
they make their sculptures with, they’d be carving marble instead of plunking
little plastic bricks together. However, I think it’s safe to say that the vast
majority of LUGNETers aren’t nearly as skilled with stone-carving tools as they
are with little plastic bricks.
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Is there a quality difference between TLC manufactured bricks and clone made
bricks?
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Do you honestly believe that’s the only factor here? I’d say it’s just as much
loyalty to the company as it is to the bricks. TLC is a veritable gem among
marbles (mostly chipped, I might add) when it comes to customer service. To get
the same level of treatment from another company, you’d probably have to be
buying nothing short of a luxury car. Beyond that, I suspect that a lot of the
ill-will has to do with the fact that pretty much all of the true “clones” have
essentially ripped off the basic LEGO brick. The simple fact that it continues
to happen makes it very difficult for TLC to maintain brand identity, as many
kids group all interlocking building bricks into the term “legos”, regardless of
who made them. And in the end, brand identity is what it’s all about.
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Because a recent racial issue has reared it’s ugly head in off-topic.debate,
I can’t help but feel there’s an analogy in there somewhere...aren’t TLC
purists actually a kind of xenophobic brand loyalist?
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You’re stretching quite a bit there. Brand loyalist, yes, but this has nothing
to do with fear of extra-terrestrials. Anyways, racism is often based on an
illogical belief that one race is inherently superior to another race. Brand
loyalty is instead based mostly on personal tastes (e.g. Coke vs. Pepsi, McD’s
vs. BK, etc.), and party on either provable superiority of product design (e.g.
darn near anything vs. Yugo, brand-name vs. generic, etc.), or product cost
(rarely do superior product design and lower cost go hand-in-hand, so it’s
usually a case of whether you’re interested in quality or quantity). There’s
nothing inherently wrong with having brand loyalty, unlike being racist. Noone
is being directly hurt by my decision to buy one brand over another, since the
unchosen brand obviously isn’t opting to cater to my specific needs more than
the brand I choose, which is the whole point of capitalism.
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If I blindfolded you and gave you a TLC brick in one hand, and a Tyco brick
in the other, I’d then defy you to tell the difference from quality alone.
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Quality isn’t immediately obvious without seeing it in use. You can’t look at
two similar unbranded cars and immediately be able to tell which one is more
likely to break down in two years, but if you give them each a test drive, you
might have a better feeling about one over the other. The fact that there is
only one interlocking building brick with theme parks dedicated to it suggests
that there’s one brick that invokes that feeling more than others.
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Dave!’s stuff is very heavy on the clones bricks -- that’s his whole thing.
In fairness to the way this site is organized, I don’t have a problem with
Dave! posting his clone MOCs only in off-topic.clone-brands. Those of us
that care to see them will see them there. Ultimately, it must be admitted
that a place has been made for Dave!’s unique contributions. But then, his
stuff tends to be 100% clone bricks. And 100% clone MOCs DO have a home.
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Given that this site is dedicated to LEGO use, there’s absolutely no reason why
they should have to provide a clone-centric group (they could just ban all such
discussion). That they did set up a seperate group should tell you two things.
The first is that if you like clone bricks, you should be grateful for the fact
that OT.C even exists. The second is that you probably shouldn’t make such a
big stink when 90% or more of the membership agree that they don’t want to see
clone MOCs outside of OT.C (unless you really want to risk having the plug
pulled on all OT.C traffic).
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I don’t mind the odd clone element here or there at all, and I can’t see why
anyone else would either. People have been carving, painting, and
redesigning elements slightly for a long time. TLC even benefits from this,
I feel sure.
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Yup, how could they not benefit from having other companies mooch off of their
design development?
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I could easily argue that this TLC element is based on a design of my own.
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You could...but I doubt anyone would believe you. I can’t find any mention of
this modification on LUGNET prior to this specific post, so I doubt they were
even aware of it (for that matter, I doubt they are aware of it). Also, if
you posted that within a year or less of when the first set featuring the
official one-stud piece was unveiled, then they probably actually started their
design work before you made yours.
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Too much is made of purity, some percentage of clone stuff has always been
okay. 100% clone or custom stuff should probably go to off-topic.
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You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but the simple fact of it is that
it’s not up to you to decide this. If the group charters allow for clone
mingling, then it’s okay. If they don’t, then it’s not. Either way, use of
clones appears to be received much less favorably than customizing pure LEGO
bricks, and fully original homemade minifig gear appears to fall into the
“custom” category rather than the “clone” category, probably because they are
intended to fill gaps in the LEGO repertoire rather than compete with it.
And (not that this has anything to do with your post) I have no idea where
people got the idea that Stikfas are a LEGO clone.
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: A serious clone question
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| (...) See: (URL) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 05:18:47 GM "I was also carving bricks from the first (see my wings attachment at the page noted above)." also: (URL) It's probably mentioned before that time, but those refs will suffice -- not a year, but at (...) (21 years ago, 18-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, FTX)
| | | Re: A serious clone question
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| (...) But later said (without admitting the difference in meaning): (...) Note the huge difference in phrasing. The first statement is classic intolerance of others and is, in my view, unacceptable. The second is intolerance of intolerance, and is a (...) (21 years ago, 18-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A serious clone question
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| Purists are idiots. I can't think of another situation in which someone would have this kind of insane brand loyalty when working with a particular medium. "Get that Grumbacher oil paint out of my studio, it's Winsor & Newton or nothing for me!!!" (...) (21 years ago, 16-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, FTX)
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